Migraine

Hi all - I didn't know whether to put this here or in gripes - warning, it IS a gripe - but only slightly Migraine related so I'll put it here. I'm going to warn you - it will be long. I just need some support - trying to decide how to deal with someone.

You know I'm kind of a professional liking-people kind of person. I really love people! It's hard for me to admit when I really can't stand someone. But I am human and it does happen to me.

I have a neighbor - call her S. She has a son (J), who used to be friends with my Adam and his best friend (L). S is a kind of whiny self-obsessed person who will ask you to do her a favor, but then keep you standing there for an hour while she tells you why she can't do it herself, why nothing ever goes right for her, how she will repay you the $3.59 for the milk, call you back three times to talk your ear off more when you try to get in the car and go to the dratted store already, send her kids over at 7 am asking to use your printer right now while you're trying to get your own kids ready... Get the picture?

So she drives me nuts, but I could easily avoid her but for... her dreaded son J. He is a bully. I think he's sadistic - I've had him over and seen him with the other boys. They all horse around and sometimes it gets a little rough but if someone says "Ouch," they back off. Not so with J, if anyone starts getting hurt or upset he sees that as a reason to hit them much harder. We have had incident after incident where J hit Adam, kicked him, threw rocks at him, slammed his head into the sidewalk, etc. He's done the same to L, Adam's friend. S doesn't believe it. Her attitude is "all the other boys are just as bad and no-one understands my poor son." Not one of these boys has ever been in a fight or gotten into any kind of trouble except with her son. Her husband's attitude is "boys will be boys and I'm a child development expert so I know it's okay for my kid to hit your kid."

So the 3rd or 4th time there was a problem (on the bus) I went straight to the middle school principal, because why should I complain to S when she won't believe me, won't do anything about it, will talk my ear off for 3 hours, and she gives me a headache? Then she confronted me in the park because her feelings were so hurt that I had gone to the principal instead of her.

This year things really quieted down. L and his family moved away, J has made some other friends and stopped bothering Adam, and I don't have to talk to S. Adam even played basketball at the park with J and some other boys. He tells me J is acting better this year.

But this weekend L and his family are visiting us. I guess he and Adam stopped outside S's house for a little while and she saw them. So she called me. For once I didn't check the caller ID and had to talk to her. She wants me to bring L's parents over for a big six person confab since our boys are so hurtful to her son for not including him when L comes to town to visit. And she's sure I don't know about the terrible lies Adam and L have told about J and how hurtful that was and how they bullied poor J by accusing him of these things!

I get so upset talking to her. Or I should say listening, because you really can't get a word in edgewise. Usually I can talk quite straight to people, but I don't say much with her. I get off the phone with her with a Migraine threatening - I feel like my head is going to explode.

I guess because what there is for me to say is "your son has bullied my son and L, I think it's great that they stood up for themselves and accused him, there's no reason for them to include him when he doesn't know how to behave, but they all seem to be getting along okay these days anyway so there's no reason to have a conversation, and you don't listen to anything anyone says and you don't control your child so why should we waste our time talking to you?" But I can't seem to bring myself to say that! So I just avoid her. I was so desperate to get off the phone yesterday that I said "I'll see" about having a big sit-down conference with her about our sons, when what I really meant was "NO WAY!"

Arrgh! I think I'm going to have to send her an email. I really don't ever want to talk to her again. If I just don't call her back she'll track me down around town where I don't want to make a scene in front of my other neighbors. I just don't think I can avoid the issue any more. But I can feel the tension mounting every time I even think about her. I refuse to get a Migraine over this woman!

If you made it this far... thanks for listening!

- Megs

-Dear Nutmegan- In my opinion(for what it's worth) what you're dealing with is someone who is a) not going to change and b)is not going to listen She sounds like a rather abusive person to me(hence, her son being a sadist). What I learned from years of counseling, reading self help books, going to 12 step groups, etc. is you HAVE to put up boundaries with these people. As hard as it is you have to take care of yourself this way. As one counselor told me about one of my family members, "You can't reason with a drunk, IT"S NOT POSSIBLE" It sounds like you have a great idea emailing this woman and communicating that you don't need to be getting together with her and leaving it at that- you don't even need to give her an explanation! If she attempts to call you, you don't need to talk to her either. The only thing we HAVE to do in this life is die- I'm sorry, I'll get off my now- I've been a people pleaser, don't-make-waves person all my life and it's cost me a lot of migraines! You're a neat lady, with a lot to give- I hate to see you terrorized by this person, it makes me - let us know what happens!

Valerie

Oh, Megs, I feel for you. I really do. I can't offer you much in the way of personal experience, since I'm in a different place in life, but I can pass on some advice that my very wise mother (a therapist) has passed on to me.

Valerie is right that you have no chance of changing this woman. Honestly, I think your best bet is to set up some boundaries, communicate your needs *very clearly* and then just ignore her. Don't feel the need to be polite. Being polite hasn't gotten you anywhere so far. Tell her to back off, and then don't respond to her.

I'll give you an analogy of a more extreme example: stalking. If you're being stalked, the last thing you want to do is continue to respond to your stalker. You don't keep answering the phone and keep seeing the stalker to tell him to back off. You tell him once, very clearly, and then stop responding to him.

I'm not saying this woman is a stalker, by any means, but I'm using this example because there comes a point where you just have to state your needs, very clearly, and then stop responding to this person and not worry about hurting her feelings. That can be hard for us as women to do sometimes, because we worry about the consequences in our relationships, but if she truly is the person you're characterizing her as (and I believe you when you say she is), then she won't understand any subtler hints.

If you want to read an excellent book on a related subject, I strongly recommend The Gift of Fear by Gavin deBecker. Reading it is one of the reasons I've learned to just trust my instincts when dealing with people, and not worry so much about stepping on toes or hurting feelings, when it comes to dealing with others who are potentially dangerous to me or my loved ones.

I'm not saying any of this to scare you, but I know as a mother and as a very loving and caring woman, you want to do what's best for your family. This woman and her family have no place in your life, IMHO, and it's time to let her know that.

Good luck to you - I'm glad you feel comfortable enough with us here to share this with us.

Thanks Valerie & MJ -

Your words are a big help. It felt so much better getting it off my chest and you are both giving me great reminders about taking care of me and mine. I am going to write this woman an email, make clear that I don't want to talk to her about her son, and set a clear line. And let go of worrying what she thinks. I've done it with people in the past; I can do it again.

My friends who are visiting, of course, don't want to see her either. I have plenty of validation that I'm not the crazy one here!

Enough!

- Megs

Good for you, Megs! I'm glad we could help, and I'm glad venting here helped you get the burden off your chest a bit. If you feel comfortable sharing about it, let us know how it goes, ok? I'll be sending good thoughts your way.

Okay, I sent it! Here's what I said:

quote:

Dear S – I did not call you back. Neither we nor the A's want to revisit all the old ground of what happened between the boys. Adam and J seem to be getting along these days and I see no reason not to let bygones be bygones. We all knew about L's letter to J and I thought it was completely appropriate for L to get some closure on the subject by relating all the bullying he had received at J’s hands. Whenever I have tried to speak to you about the things J did over a couple of years, you have refused to listen, or to recognize that your son’s behavior was a problem. Neither Adam nor L has ever been in trouble or gotten in a fight or been accused of any aggression except when J was involved. I hope at this point they can continue to get along. I am not interested in discussing it further.

Well, for me! I may get a bunch of emails or calls, or not, or my name may be mud around town, but I doubt it because I don't think she has much credibility with anyone. Anyway, it feels good to have drawn a line.

Good night!
- megs

Megs, I find it hard to believe your name will be mud around town, at least with anyone who knows you. Your letter spells things out pretty clearly. Now just remember to stick to your guns - good for you for standing up for you and your family.

I'll be sending lots of positive vibes your way that this is the last you'll have to hear from S and her family, that she can just leave well enough alone.

AWESOME- Good for you! Even though you may be feeling a little trepidation, I'll bet you are feeling some freedom from this person now- and I'm sure everyone else in town will be proud of you also!

Valerie

Meg,
It's hard to set boundray's with people like S, but you've done what had to be done. Good for you. It's also good for your kids to see you stand up to people like this family, it's a valuable lesson for them also.

Keep us posted. I hope it goes well.

Cindy

Megs,

Brava! You knew what you needed to do. I'm glad you knew you could come here, talk about it, then do it. Even when we DO know what to do, sometimes we need affirmation from someone else to give us that last little push to do it.

You know, that child is going to get the crap beat out of him some day when he tries his crap on someone bigger and as much a bully as he is. Then HIS mother will probably be all over the other mother. She's not going to recognize Karma when it punches her kid in the nose and bites her on the butt. BUT, that is not your responsibility or problem.

Let me remind you of something else you already know -- only the person who owns a problem can solve it.

hugs!

Oh Megan!

Yep, you're the rational one of the two of you, I'm afraid. You won't be able to use reason to change her.

Stupid that things have to be this way but as the old saying goes, apples don't fall far from the tree. Like Teri said, you knew what you needed to do. I am so sorry that she made you have to feel bad all over again having to send the email so she wouldn't bother you again and you'd feel better.

She sounds manipulative. Be on the lookout for sneaky ways that she may use to restart things.

I just read this in Teri's book, "Been there, done that, burned the tee shirt".

Great job, Megs!

I'm proud of you! You were very clear and direct, but certainly didn't have a nasty tone...

A great email!!

jenny

Perfect!

Thank you all for your wonderful warm support and affirmation. The bullying that went on last year and the year before that was a major issue in our life and a major worry for me. I have been so relieved that it settled down/resolved, and that Adam seems to have come out stronger & more sure of himself. I have so much else that is stressful in my life right now - just a ridiculous pile of stuff. There's no way I had room for the added/renewed stress of that awful woman. I am so glad I could come here and get all your support. It means a LOT!

Megs

You know who loves ya, baby!