Migraine

When it was suggested that I see and review "Sicko," there was no question that there was a link to headaches and Migraines. Those of us with Migraine disease and chronic headaches are among those who encounter the strengths and weaknesses of the healthcare system, wherever we live.

We need to take a good, objectively critical look at the U.S. healthcare system. "Sicko" met all my expectations that it would be biased and have a definite political agenda. It does, and one would have to be dense beyond words to miss either the bias or the agenda. Still, regardless of their own point of view, I would propose that anyone who is in a position to impact healthcare should be required to watch "Sicko" and pay attention to some of the problems of the American healthcare system that are shown in the movie...

Read “Sicko” — a review — Save your money!

I think Moore started to "go bad" after one of his first movies, Roger and Me. He's become very full of himself.

Good review, I should sent it to my sister who loved it.

Thanks, Deb!

quote:

Originally posted by DebHOST:
I think Moore started to "go bad" after one of his first movies, Roger and Me. He's become very full of himself.

Good review, I should sent it to my sister who loved it.

Has anyone else seen "Sicko?" I'm amazed that this didn't spark more discussion.

I saw "Sicko" and pretty much agree with your review of it. In fact, I went twice to be sure I was clear on what and how Moore said certain things. Continually referring to universal health care in other countries as "free" is horribly inaccurate. First, it's not free. It's supported by much higher taxes than we pay in the U.S. Do you see U.S. citizens putting up with higher taxes even if it does mean universal health care? I don't think so. Plus, as was pointed out, people in many of these countries still buy supplemental insurance. Holy crap! Higher taxes AND paying for supplemental insurance. Again, I don't think so.

Here's something I don't think has been talked about yet. There is so little government funded research being conducte in the U.S. that it's crippling the research for effective treatments and maybe even a cure for countless diseases. In a country that won't even fund this kind of research, how on earth could single-payer unversal health care ever succeed?

At risk of ticking off some members here, I'm still going to say this. With all the conversations about bad doctors, etc., why aren't people here discussing this more? Nothing is going to get better just by talking about bad experiences.

quote:

Originally posted by Abi:
I saw "Sicko" and pretty much agree with your review of it. In fact, I went twice to be sure I was clear on what and how Moore said certain things. Continually referring to universal health care in other countries as "free" is horribly inaccurate. First, it's not free. It's supported by much higher taxes than we pay in the U.S. Do you see U.S. citizens putting up with higher taxes even if it does mean universal health care? I don't think so. Plus, as was pointed out, people in many of these countries still buy supplemental insurance. Holy crap! Higher taxes AND paying for supplemental insurance. Again, I don't think so.

Here's something I don't think has been talked about yet. There is so little government funded research being conducte in the U.S. that it's crippling the research for effective treatments and maybe even a cure for countless diseases. In a country that won't even fund this kind of research, how on earth could single-payer unversal health care ever succeed?

At risk of ticking off some members here, I'm still going to say this. With all the conversations about bad doctors, etc., why aren't people here discussing this more? Nothing is going to get better just by talking about bad experiences.

Abi - you're completely right to underline that 'free' universal healthcare is not actually free. In the UK, for example, our tax burden is enormous (yet not quite as high as the Scandinavians', whose health care systems are regarded as far superior).

In the UK also, it's clear that you do need to pay to get healthcare results. Many more people have private healthcare as a job-related benefit nowadays. In fact, I'd venture to say that you'd never see an executive type in an inner city NHS hospital ward. Free healthcare in the UK is really becoming a 2nd and 3rd class service for us plebs.

One good thing is that medical research seems to flourish still here. I suppose that a lot of it is funded by the big pharmas (we don't have humungously rich universities as you do). But maybe the pharma companies see a market that isn't saturated yet - or maybe that there are many willing live guinea-pigs for them to experiement on. I mean, if you're desperate, you'll be willing to take part wouldn't? And, with the NHS waiting times, a lot more people are will to get on to trials etc. just to get any treatment.

Why aren't we talking about addressing the problem of bad doctors? Well, I imagine for one thing that most of us here have our work cut out just accessing good treatment. Organising and complaining officially takes up a lot of energy that we don't have to spare? Secondly, maybe we feel that we can't actually do anything about the whole culture of poor medical practice. Certainly that's true in the UK, where healthcare is essentially a monopoly run by the state. (Remember, many people here pay for what they consider to be reasonable healthcare - that's the benefit of paying in our system: you actually get respect, time, timely treatment when you need it etc).

I'm not actually sure that our NHS doctors are actually intrinsically bad for the most part. I just think they are part of an entrenched patriarchal culture that sees the patient as a slightly lower life form that they just do not have enough time for, largely because the NHS is so woefully underfunded. (Eeee, I could set myself off on a rant about Blair's penchant for bellicose activities around central Europe and the Middle East, and the fact that the UK pays nearly $4million EACH HOUR of every day of the year to the hideously expensive and bureaucratic - and, in the popular mind, useless - European Union....this is where our tax££ actually go.)

However, it's true that the healthcare systems of comparative EU countries like France and Germany do seem to work better and deliver a better service on the whole. In fact, if you live in the south-east of England it's possible that you'll go to a French hospital for your hip replacement and similar surgeries. It eases the NHS waiting lists. The French system is, I believe, another form of private/state partnership. I have heard lots of good things about it, but I know very little about how it works in practice (note to myself, must ask my two Francophile friends).

The essential question that Moore invokes, though, is: how do we-the-people change systems that are deeply embedded and driven by extremely powerful and/or wealthy players? I don't think any of us have an answer to that. We are pawns compared to these agents, and so even though Moore goes over the top, perhaps we need this sort of shock reportage to get us moving and agitating for change?

Hei.

Iagrees that min home counterie of Norge (a scandinavian counterie) does has godt health cares but there is major loops holes too.

afterall it is in Norge min friend Benta die of migrainoues stroke. also dids has familie member dies of heartattcks whiles waiting to be sees by heart doctor. There was 5 month wait list.

and peoples in Norge gets tax.....ALOT.

Hasingbeen in BOTH healthcare systems (here in usa and there in Norge) I nosure whish I tink is betters. there is godt points and suckie points in both.

Sol

Solveig,
Thank you! It's good to hear from someone who has lived through both types of healthcare.
Rebecca

Yes, it's interesting to hear a bit of first hand experience, thanks Sol!

I spoke with my friend who has lived in France about why their system is so good. Bear in mind that this is all anecdotal, based on her experience of living there for several years. She said, first off, that all French people are born with a medical encyclopaedia in their hands!

They are very, very health conscious (an NHS doc might probably call this level of interest 'hypochondria'!) and visit their docs at the slightest sign of things. They know, and the system encourages them, about their bodies and symptoms and are very clued up about medicines.

They 'doctor-shop' and are not afraid to consult several docs for 2nd/3rd opinons etc. Doctors are not gods - maybe this is a result of the French political system: 'Liberte, egalite, fraternite'...?? (That is, maybe because they started their democratising revolution many years before everyone else, the ideal and practice of equality at least is far more entrenched and subliminally active?? )

There have been many more doctors in France - the UK system of medical training (and perhaps the US) actually sets limits on how many people can train, and the sort of entry quals are tight. The French culture and educationaly system encourages medical students.

Where the Brits have a strong tradition of paying for private schooling (we call it 'public school' - many med students come from up market public schools!) - the French put their cash into their medical care.

Their state school system is accepted as good and effective by many people - unlike the English school system which lumbers from crisis to shock to lacklustre and round again! The health care interest and extra cash in France means that, in addition to the large and adequate, state, free healthcare system, there is a vast, robust and well-integrated complementary health care offer. The cost of which is reclaimable under insurance plans.

Of course, we also have to remember that we are talking about French middle class experience. But there are probably more people in this band in France than there are in the US or UK, pro rata. Whatever, this middle class impetus to ensure good health care means that there are benefits for all sections of society.

It seems to me, anecdotally again of course, that in Britain now, the movement of the middle class away from the NHS services towards private medicine has undermined the NHS and reduced its quality.

Exactly this has happened in British - or English at least - schooling: the articulate, well-off middle class abandon state schooling to those not so able or wealthy. What's happened is that those state schools have not had the active input (and the checks and balances) of can-do, resourceful middle class parents.

This means that proper complaints are not made, fewer people are able or articulate enough to mount campaigns to improve health care (and state education) provision. In my city, which has been a wealthy trading town for nearly a thousand years with comparatively little deprivation, there are many 'public' (fee-paying, independent) schools.

Hence, the city's state schooling is chronically notoriously bad (I speak as someone who's been on what Americans would probably call the state education board, school boards - and who sent her kids to independent schools!).

Sadly, NHS provision in the city is going the same way - for exactly the same reasons. It's a wealthy place, more people can afford private medicine. Increasingly, NHS doctors are dealing with predominantly lower socio-economic groups (whose complicity is expected, let's face it. We still have quite a rigid class structure.)

Incidentally, mortality rates are lower in France from 'big' health conditions despite avid Gauloise and alcohol consumption etc. My friend and I speculated that many deaths were averted because of French people's propensity to see a doctor early in their illnesses and the fact that there are more doctors, less waiting to get specialist treatment.

Just a note about what's happening now in France: apparently, they seem to be dropping this model of centralised and copious healthcare provision because the state is finding it too expensive. They are heading towards an NHS, decentralised, pared-down model.

So, I probably won't be able to get a hip-replacement tout suite avec haut cuisine, l'abondance de bonne attention et de soin over the Channel after all...!!