Bipolar Depression

What happens when a "normal" person takes things like Lithium, Lamictal, etc? Does it have no effect since they are fine to begin with?

I should be more clear. I am wondering what the meds would do if taken by someone who does not exibit signs of any major mental illness. I am curious if the meds have no affect on someone who is natually stable; no outward or reported signs of depression or mania.

I am not planning on slipping drugs to anyone but, for example, what if my friend started taking lithium despite not really needing it. I am scientifically curious but not a scientist myself.

If your friend wasn't showing any signs of anything wrong then how did he/she get the pills you said? Not to scare you or anything but people have been known to kill themselves and never show anyone they were hurting. I can't believe a doctor would give someone these pills if the person did not at least say something that would cause the doctor to think about giving it to them. You may want to talk to a doctor about any problems that might come of taking them if they are not necessary. They do affect the brain chemicals.

Wait a minute, who posted anything about slipping someone meds?

Are you a sick person who thinks it would be funny to see what someone will do on these meds? Are you planning on slipping your friend some pills to see how they squirm?

Red flags are going up in my mind because you are not very forthcoming with your information as to why you want to know. If you are a friend to someone you know is taking the meds and you don't think there is anything wrong then perhaps you need to talk to your friend some more.

Otherwise it is not funny to slip someone meds just to see what it would do to them, it is sick.

Oh jeez. I never said anything about what doctors should and shouldn't do. Marie >> I specifically said I am NOT talking about slipping anyone meds (see post above) <<. I am not asking about a specific person. Nobody has pills waiting to test out. I didn't know this was going to be such a senstitive question.

When I said "friend", I didn't mean anyone in particular. I was trying to simplify my question.

I have been taking meds for over 20 years. I spent almost two years of my teens in mental hosptitals. I have taken dozens of different kinds of meds. I consider myself very well educated on the topic EXCEPT in this one facet of the medications. I have asked my doctors but I just don't feel like I get clear answers. I think they read too much into the questions (like some of your did here) and avoid sharing information.

Logically, I think that if a "normal" person took lithium or lamictal over time, it would have some kind of affect. (yes, normal is a loaded word but I hopefully, you can just use it here to get my point). However, on the flip side, one might say since there is nothing to treat, it wouldn't have an affect. Does it level them out, eliminate any excitement, etc? What does it do to the "normal" brain?

I am exploring this to better my understanding. I am scientifically curious (as I said before). I was reading some other publication and it mentioned BP newsgroups. I looked this one up and posted my question here. I am not a regular newsgroup user so I must have done something wrong in the way I asked my question. I figured if anyone could just give me the straight facts, someone on here could.

I don't know if I have completely alienated myself here but I thought I would explain again rather than just disappear. This has been my intent all along. If someone has knowledge in this area, I would still genuinely like to know.

So - I hope that makes it clear.

got it now - sorry!!

I have learned through my initiation into posting on message boards that the more specific I am in wanting information the better information and more clearer I receive.

Folks can only go by what is actually keyed in that no one sees anyone's face or voice to voice and therefore can not "read" one another's physical and verbal reactions. So to post you need to take a step further when asking for information and/or help. You don't have to divulge your innermost intimate feelings if you don't wish to - that is your choice.

Yet please try to understand that asking if a "normal" person can be affected by taking lithium or lamictal and that you are scientifically curious and pretty much that is all that is keyed leaves a lot to other folks imagination as to what is meant. Since we are all labelled one way or the other (those of us who have a mental illness) for someone to ask about "normal" can set some off, like myself.

Corey suggested talking with an MD about your question. That is probably the best answer. Only an MD or a pharmacist would know that specific answer.

You are not alienated by no means and if anything I have been. But you must be more clearer and a bit more forthcoming if you want a geniune answer to something. Sorta washes the greyness out of it.

Ok. Makes sense.

The problem with the doctors is that I have yet to meet one that doesn't maintain some level of suspicion when you ask certain questions. I know that, as a bipolar person, there is no guarantee I will always be in a rational state (again, I only speak for MY situation). I’m sure they are playing it safe. I have been with my current doctor for almost five years and she still cross checks her records against what I say are my med refill needs (again, some of that behaviour may be grounded). It’s all based on suicide concerns… although I have never attempted.

I am a strong believer in freedom of information. If I want to know how a drug affects a person who is not considered mentally ill, tell me. If I want to know how much trileptal is fatal and how it causes death, I just want to know. I see no point in censorship. I always tell my therapists that that if I wanted to commit suicide, I am sure I wouldn’t tell them.

Oh – I should say that I don’t have a creepy obsession with drugs and death. I just chose those as examples. It’s so much easier to find out everything else about drugs. It’s this obscure stuff that’s harder to find.

I know there are people out there that probably shouldn’t be given certain information. I am not one of them. Until I befriend a doctor closely enough that I am both willing to disclose my condition and ask these questions, I have to try this online method of collecting information. Never know who might read this!

I can tell you the thought that sparked the original question herein. I wondered “what if” I had been diagnosed incorrectly decades ago. What if it were all a mistake? What would these drugs do to someone that didn’t need them. I bet that makes sense of all this!

I have lots of questions about the meds and all of that...but my concern and sadness is that you do not seem to have a therapist whom knows you well enough and provides a safe place for you to ask any question....

oh...and I also wonder a lot if I may have been mis-diagnosed....and I have to have blood-levels checked for the depakote and before that lithium levels and I always worried about too much or too little...like I was some experiment....one Dr did write...Cynthia hates taking her meds...but on most days I am thankful..I also think you could probley get answers from the pharmacist....

Relatively speaking, I am satisfied with my psychiatrist. I think it is protocol to be on alert for dangerous or suicidal inquiries.

My blood levels are within a normal range. Those tests simply confirm that the level of the chemicals in your blood is adequate to affect treatment. The levels on their own couldn't help determine the accuracy of your diagnosis.

I have never felt like an experiment. It's a puzzling response to routine and necessary medical tests. If the tests expanded beyond the usual, I might wonder.

I am curious to know if anyone feels safe enough to ask their psychiatrist about suicidal effects of medication. Try going into the "safest" environment and ask "How much lithium would it take to kill someone??" You risk giving up your freedom.

I don't think every doctor knows the answer to my question. I imagine they don't routinely study what meds due to a "normal" person. (again, using "normal" meaning the majority who are not clinically bipolar)

This dialogue has helped though. I have realized the difficulty in getting an answer. I'll have to keep my eye out for a researcher or medical expert in the field of psychiatric medication. I did meet one once - but he was a nut case!

Maybe I'll slip my friends meds over a one month period and see what happens? (KIDDING! Marie!)

Take care.

I have to agree with you that if I were to ask a psychiatrist how much Lamictal you would have to take to kill yourself that I would probably have questions thrown at me as to why? and receive quizzical concerned looks from them or worse be carted off to the hospital.

Checking out "pharmacy" books at the local bookstore may give you some information. ooh or you can ask the pharmacist for the drug information slip that comes on all the bottles from the pharmaceutical company. Very technical but it goes into a whole lot of detail about chemistry and such.

I am by no means telling others that in order to know how many pills to take to do you in you can go to a bookstore or get the pharmaceutical company info sheet from the pharmacist - I am not suggesting this!! Just to clarify that.

I am only trying to help Q with his dilema as he has stated it here!!

Hi: I read your post regarding if people without a psychiatric diagnosis would be effected by psychiatric drugs. Good question! I have always had mood swings/irritability and rage mainly,and depression. I went, by request of my husband, to get help 7 years ago and was diag. with BP ll. Anti-depressants made me suicidal(never had those impulses before) and hypomanic(never had those before..would love now to have them back!) This was why they diagnosed me bipolar ll;reaction to anti-depressant. I was put on a mood stabilizer. I have been on lamictal, effexor, adderall, seroquel, lithium, cylexa, a couple more... and nothing has helped...actually, I feel like the meds have made me worse. So, do meds make a person worse? Do meds effect the brain? I am sure there is a fine line somewhere...I get nervous wondering if these meds are making me worse since I don't think they are making me any better. I would love to know what meds would do to a normal brain; I say normal..I mean not diagnosed with a pyschiatric condition.) We are all normal (: maybe we could google pychiatric medication studies/research effects on brain. Thanks for bringing up that question; I would always like to learn more (: let me know if you find anything at all, okay?

feather... Unfortunately, I don't think you will easily find the answer to the question. As you can read, I was tackled for asking this. I don't think that this discussion board is equipped to deal with the more academic discussions surrounding bipolar medicstion. This seems to be more of an emotional space.

One reasonable suggestion was to look into certain books. You really can't find the answer there either. Asking your psychiatrist doesn't seem to work either (at least for me).

I think knowing what these drugs do to a "normal" brain provides a point on the spectrum to support analysis.

(let me add the apparently necessary disclaimers here: [a] "normal" is used in the traditional sense of the word meaning the majority, the typical and [b] I am not seeking this information for illegal or underhanded reasons)

Interesting question. Lamictal, Depakote, Topamax, and Trileptal were not originally developed for mood stabilization. They are anti-seizure meds that we later found out have mood stabilizing properties. They are also sometimes used in other conditions. Lamictal, Topamax, and Depakote are often used to treat migraines. While the brains of individuals with epilepsy and migraines aren't exactly normal, they don't have the mood problems we have. So, what happens when they take these meds? Most people don't report anything, but, interestingly, a lot of people complain about mood side effects. They go from being normal people to having depression or anxiety or hypomania. Granted, these are rare side effects, but they do happen on these meds, and I find that quite interesting. You can find mood disturbance side effects listed in the official PI sheets too that you get at your pharmacy for these meds. Does that help?

Yes, this does help shed light on the subject. It makes sense too. I really appreciate the info.