Bipolar Depression

I just read GJ Gregory's blog about the 10 things you should know. Yet no one can answer me a concern or question I've had. It could be no one can answer as we are not all "in a pre-defined box". I've been told by my Pdoc that once I am on the right meds I'll be fine and not have any more issues in that I'll be "managing" the illness, as long as I take my meds exactly. Yet I know of people that take their meds exactly and religiously, eat right, sleep okay, and exercise and yet still relapse and end up in the hospital. I was also told it would be a year to a year and a half after diagnosis until I was "stable" (if on right meds, which I have to find). What is managing if things can still go wrong even while doing the right things?

Marie,
I have only had BP2 for 4-5 years so not an expert however from MY experience and watching my son try to deal with his BP1 from age 14-20 (he had symptoms way before diagnosis though) I can give you a few points.
The things you mentioned: Enough/good sleep, good nutrition, take meds religously, exercise and a STABLE relationship increases odds you will stay stable. If I do all of the above, plus go to a support group, go to my therapist I can weather most ups/downs ok. I am on Lithium, Wellbutrin and Lamictal which is a good mix for ME however even if I take care of myself I do have depression at times and hypomania at times. Think about it, outside sources are going to affect all of us whether BP or not. This last 2 months I have had to deal with 2 deaths that hit me hard and extremely low temps/snow outside so I have not been out to get any sun (being outside helps moods as well). I have had a harder time but I keep going to support group and doing everything I usually do even though I don't feel like getting out of bed some days.

My son is 20 so it has taken him MUCH longer to learn this (he has not yet still). He takes his meds but stays up till 0300, eats horrid and just ended a very volaitle relationship with a gal that is probably borderline personality. His p-doc told him he can do all the other 4 things (above) he should be doing and if the relationship is tumultous that can make him unstable. He has many more unstable periods than I do, part of it is his bp is more severe than mine and part of it is that he does not take care of himself.
So, keep doing those "right" things, they may not have found the med that works the best for YOU! Join a DBSA support group (if they have one there) so you can hear people talk about what helps them. I have made many good friends through that support group and we do lunch, whatever and call each other if we need a "boost"! Hope things get better. Pat

I agree with Pat - to a degree. In my opinion, we do everything we can to minimize the triggers, to take care of ourselves, to lower our risk. But we still have to live with the realization that for most of us bipolar disorder will be a lifetime affliction. We need to prepare for the possibility, or eventuality, of relapses. If we're med and lifestyle compliant, our relapses should be manageable. Or that's my hope, anyway.

I'm not an expert either. But I've been living with bipolar for almost 12 years now. The first year or two was kind of shaky while we tried to get meds figured out. But really once we got meds worked out I've been doing really good. Honestly, other than taking a pill once a day I don't notice it and haven't really noticed it for about 8-9 years now. Exercise, eating well, having good friends around you...my faith in God I think has been HUGE...

There is a light at the end of the tunnel so don't give up...you'll get there.

This post is directed to GJ Gregory.
Sorry I am posting here, but I really need to ask you some things. I read an old post of yours, that briefly talked about Bp's running when things get too much. My husband has not been diagnosed, yet, but I had urged him to talk to the Dr. about 2 months ago about his mood swings that have been with him all of our married life and before that. We have been married for 11 years. I am desperately trying to find ANY help anywhere!! I am so scared that I will never see him again. We had a GREAT Xmas and New Years, the Dr. gave him a thyroid test--came back fine. The Dr. proceeded to give him an antidepress. med. which he took even though he had been quite good for a while--said he felt great! Then on Jan. 25 I came home to find him and his stuff gone. He won't talk to me and I get e-mails that keep saying to get on with my life , and that he has to get control of his.The e-mails were getting a little better, they would say that he was very busy,they would be very brief but stopped mentioning to get on with my life. Then today he once again said to me that he's sorry for leading me on and he hopes that I find what I am looking for. I don't understand how someone can go from planning to do things with thier spouse after Xmas to I hope you find what you are looking for. I wanted to post to you GJ, because you seem to know enough about this illness that I feel you may be my last hope. I am just sick to think that this is it. Is there any hope? He did do this to me once before 2 yrs ago and was gone for2-3 months. I bugged his friends to get him to talk to me, and he did, he was mean and said we were over but then he eventually started coming over. This time I can't get him to call me or budge on his decision. Could the antidepress. meds have made the mania stronger? last longer? I am sorry I am looking for any hope and help------I don't want to live without him. Everyone has told me to leave him alone and I have tried hard to comply but the results don't look as good as the other time he left.What can I do? Thanks so much for any help. Ty

Ty - first, let me say I'm not a health care professional, just someone who's experienced a lot.

Your husband sounds just like my 22 year old son who suffers from bipolar disorder. When things get overwhelming, he disappears. Sometimes weeks or a month or more at a time. With me, I don't physically leave, I withdraw and often become mean and explosive.

I understand that your husband hasn't been diagnosed, but if he has bipolar disorder an anti-depressant could send him into a severe mania. Before I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder I experienced this several times. It is very real, and I can absolutely see how that could trigger his leaving.

My son does exactly the same thing as your husband. He's very loving, respectful, and would never knowingly hurt someone's feelings. But when he's manic he stays with his friends, and it always brings out the worst in him. He's very mean to his girlfriend, and that's not something he would do when not manic. When I get manic I often reduce my family to tears with my meanness. It kind of goes with the territory.

I can't tell you what is best for you in this situation. I'm not trying to diagnose him, but I can say that this behavior would be consistent with bipolar disorder mania. I will say that first and foremost, you need to take care of yourself. Physically, mentally, emotionally. Only when you are strong and healthy can you make the decisions that are right for you and your relationship.

If you can get him to agree to a psych analysis, it's possible this can be quickly brought under control with the right medication. He'll always have it, but that's OK, his personality is probably one of the things that drew you to him. It can be controlled, and a lifetime relationship is possible. I've been married 27 years, and it hasn't been easy at times. But is it easy with any relationship?

Once again, take care of yourself, don't stop caring about him, but make the decisions that are best for YOU. I wish you both all the best.

Thank you GJ, I know that your not a healthcare professional, but that isn't what I was looking for anyway. I wasn't looking for stats on the disorder or what has to be done with or for him because right now I can barely get him to acknowledge that he knows me little own a connection of being in love for the past 11 years. But i have read some of your posts and blog, and know that you have been living with this for yourself and your son for a long time--so you know what some of the things that are consistent to this disorder are. I am not looking for anyone to tell me what I should do. I just need to know I guess what things usually happen.I along with a few other women on this site alone are dealing with the exact same situation and I guess for us it's hard to know what we should be doing--if anything, to help him and the situation. And since you have experienced a lot with this, I am just looking for insight. It's very scary on this side of it when your world just up and goes away, we don't really know what to expect, will they change thier minds later--after mania? Will they remember the love they have for us? It's hard to sum up in words what I am looking for, I guess just the possibility of hope. Because where we sit it looks like it's over from the things that are said, but that just seems so impossible from where we were 1-2 months ago.I don't have the mind of a Bp, but I know that I DON'T want to give up on him either.I have lived with it for 11 years and knowing what I do know now-- makes it that much more handleable, I am ok with that. My entire life has been a series of "stuff" since I was a little girl. The stuff with my husband is nothing--because it also came with a lot of love. I guess I just need to know that that love is still there deep inside, after the mania,and I assume you would know some since you have Bp. I would just like the chance to still love him--I wasn't done yet. Thanks Ty

Ty - I meant no disrepect with my statement about not being a medical professional, I just have to make that known.

I would doubt that his feelings towards you have changed. When I get manic and start to think about leaving or straying, I have learned that things are going to change eventually, and that I would regret any rash action. It's gotten me through 27 years of marriage. I WANTED to leave many times, I WANTED to pursue pleasure, but as I've aged, matured, and become stable through my meds, I have lost much of that desire to escape.

If you really want him back, you may have to pursue him like you did in the past. He'll be embarassed about the mania and leaving, but I doubt his feelings have changed. I pretty much guarantee he'll want to come back. When he does, it gives you a chance to set ground rules when he's still remorseful. But until he gets on medication that will stabilize him, he'll likely eventually blow off those rules again. It's a pattern I've seen many times.

So yes, there is hope. The mania probably hasn't changed his feelings for you. There is a chance for a long and fulfilling life together, but it will take a lot of work on both sides. He's going to HAVE to make a commitment to get stable.

I hope this helps, I'd be happy to try to explain anything else.

Thank you GJ;
I never felt any direspect, I'm sorry for giving you that feeling. I am so greatful for you answering.This all does help it gives me hope and a little more understanding. He was always pretty good at trying to make our lives healthy and happy for both of us, counselling or going to the Dr. at my request to find out why the mood swings. So how do I pursue him if he won't talk except in e-mails to say mean things? I keep requesting to get a call from him or to buy him a coffee so we could talk and be friends ( I thought that would seem safer to him). But he keeps telling me he's too busy, or that we have nothing to talk about, or the last one--"sorry for leading you on, I wish you the best and hope you find what you're looking for."
I'am willing to do what it takes I just don't know how to with what I have to deal with. I don't know where he is exactly, or phone # except for his work. So do I just keep pushing by e-mail for him to call? and to keep telling him I love him? I hope I am not asking you for too much with this. I just want to bring him closer not push him farther away. And I know that he is an individual, and so are you that things vary, but I think that some of the thinking is the same, and that will at least help me to figure out what and how to do it. Thanks again GJ for all your help. Ty

GJ,
Ty and I have a lot of similarities in are situations. I too am anxious to understand what you mean by "pursue". What I consider pursue is hounding and almost bugging him. I would think that would just drive him further away. Kind of the fear of engulfment. I try to continue to tell my husband "I love you, I am hear for you if you need an ear or a shoulder, I miss you, and just talk about things on an un-emotional level when he is manic. I try not to be sobby or talk too much about future plans. Does that sound like a good way to approach or am I way off base. Thanks so much for your insight.

Bren and Ty, I haven't posted in a while, but I have been reading all of your posts. My story is so much like both of yours' and my questions are the same. I'm trying my own shock therapy on him. For the first time in 10 yrs. we don't have any physical contact. We don't say I love you anymore and he lives in the basement. He has a fairly new traveling job. (Oct.- I think this change threw him into a manic phase) His exact words and actions I heard and saw 3 yrs. ago. I too cannot stand the limbo and also wonder what/how to say anything to him. I am strong and in protect mode for myself and the children. I am so close to throwing in the towel. I too get confused when I hear his voice on the phone and we just do surface talk. I get a ray of hope. But when the short calls are over- I think wait a minute- He recently said he doesn't have those feelings for me anymore and I responded then perhaps we should get an amicable divorce. We haven't really talked more about it since. Does he comprehend the fact that I just said we are probably going to get divorced? Thanks GJ for your posts- they are very helpful.

I'm sorry to all, I've been going through a serious mania and haven't been able to concentrate enough to put together a response. Such is life with bipolar disorder.

Ty - When our son gets like that he is the same way - rude and wants nothing to do with us or his girlfriend. But we all continue to make contact, not so often we push him away, and he eventually hits bottom and wants to come back. Can you leave him a message at his work? Maybe once a week or so? Don't have him paged or anything, just leave him a message. I hate to get too specific, not knowing him or his personality. About all you can do is let him know that the door is still open if that's what you want.

Bren - I agree with you. If it was me, hounding me wouldn't work, it would push me away. But with my son, he starts feeling guilty so we can attempt contact more often. I guess you have to know and understand your loved one.

You Go Girl - my wife and I have been there many times. I keep from walking away as I know in a day, or a week, or a month my mood is going to change and I'll be glad I hung in there. I hope things work out for you.

Once again, sorry all for ignoring you, it's the nature of this disorder, you can't do what you can't do.

Hi GJ;
I hope you realize how much we appreciate everything you have done for us, it has meant the world to at least me. I am so sorry for you having to go through that, my heart really goes out to you. I am the kind of person that feels such sorrow for people and wants to nurse the world better.Since learning about this disorder, and understanding it better,thanks to people like you.And I suppose having depression for 30 or so years myself,and knowing how devastating and draining that is, I so feel so much for people with Bp. I know that it is worse than depression,and I can't help for it to break my heart that there are so many people that are unfairly affected with it. Don't even think for a second about being sorry, we understand and are just glad that you are now oK. Actually since I last posted to you,in my frantic state--sorry--I was having trouble getting him to e-mail me, and when he would it would be nothing but such anger and hatred. I let it slide for a bit and then I did phone him at work--just like you are suggesting now--funny heh?I was afraid because he was having people at work tell me all kinds of things so that I couldn't talk to him. But I thought that day"what have I got to lose--right now I have nothing" So I called from work, and I actually got to talk to him. He promised that he would answer if I called back in 15 minutes(too busy) --HE DID ANSWER. Still angry, and hatefull. He said he would phone me that evening--I got him to promise---HE DID. I was amazed. Still angry and disagreeable, but he called and that was the first step. I have now been able to get him to phone me once every weekend, this will be the second one tomorrow--I can't wait.He didn't have any emotion in his voice at all the last time I spoke to him. But it is another step closer, no emotion BUT no anger.And what I've been doing is letting him know in a non suffocating way that I care(he is quite sick right now--the flu--not running his marathon life right now either)and I have not been saying how I love him and he me---I did that at first so he already knows and when the time is right that he is warming up more I will again allow that gently into the conversation--I don't want to push him back away again.A day at a time. I am calmer now and stronger, so the initial mourning has passed, for now, at least. I still love him dearly and all I can see is that it is the disorder and not him--he can't help it--he has no control. He doesn't even know he has Bp, so taking steps to seek help is not an option until he is stable and I can show him my findings so he will see that he is not a "freak" as he put it sometimes. And he will also realize (I hope) that in my efforts in the past that they weren't flights of fancy in saying that this just isn't normal(I said that to a lot to stuff he did--I don't think he really believed me)I know that it's not over yet and I probably have a long road ahead of me as far as him being stable, but I guess regardless of his decission to come home(and I still believe he will) I still want to help him to be better and live a more stable, healthy and happier life. I believe that a lot of the way things have gone for me,is attributed to you GJ as well as many others that took the time to help me and others through this debilitaing and emotionally bruising disorder. Where would we be without people like you. Especially when I see so many others on these sites that also don't have ANY other support, care, or help. I hope that you have seen my thank you post. I pray for all for a light at the end of the tunnel.

GJ: it's okay. you don't have to apologize but then that is our nature (my bp nature that is) to feel the need to do so if we feel we have come up short somewhere to someone. i'm glad you are taking care of yourself and you are right You Can't Do What You Can't Do.

I know how GJ:feels,so far I have lost my sis my b/f,My whole faimly because iam bipolar.I have know ideal how to fix the things i have done.I tell them everyday that iam sorry,and ia love them but they just cant forgive me.I dont think there is a light at the end of the tunnel for me anymore.