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My flatmate (who has BD) left for good today, after living together for close to four years. We had a big fight last night.
At first, we were just talking about how our day went. She had just been accepted on a more permanent basis into a marketing company. I was very happy for her because this was now her fourth job in four years (a second one of the four also gave her permanency, but she quit three months after she was made permanent).
After she had her bit of sharing, I also started sharing about my day. Before I was even done with the first scenario, she started saying very negative things about my work. I was so hurt and ticked off because, after giving her time to talk, here she was unwilling to give me airtime. That's how our argument started. I pointed out to her that I was very upset with her constant negativism. After we both vented at each other for a good hour, she left quietly and said that she was moving out the next day.
She did. Sad and hurt as I am, I know that it's for the best. But a part of me is also guilt-stricken: I know that her constant and abrasive negativity is to be expected because of her condition. Should I have been more understanding and just let her be? Should I have been more understanding and just let her be? After four years of being together, it's only now that I really became more vocal about my thoughts and feelings, concerning her. In the past, even though she had thrown a stone at me, stomped on my specs, said the crudest things about me to her siblings, I've tried to let it be water under the bridge because I try to understand her condition. Last night, I let loose and said all that I've always wanted to say. She was taken aback by it, I know. So now she's walked away. Was I wrong? Was I wrong?
I don't know where she moved to, but I'm so afraid for her. In recent days, she's been on a spending spree. And I'm still holding my breath about that permanency in her job. She could very well walk away as before. Before yesterday, she was already hinting at her dissatisfaction at her workmates and the general work flow.
When she left, I told her that I'll always be here for her. I said that to her as a lifeline, in case things don't work out again. I'm not exaggerating, when I say that in this culture, there will be no acceptance or tolerance of her condition, even from family members, who deny her condition and treat it as a stigma or curse.
I just really want to know the answer to my question and what I should do, in case she does want to move in again.
Is your flatmate on meds and was she taking them at the time? I know meds are not the be all and end all but they work for my spouse and I. Evidently other lifestyle choices and changes have to be made for each of us who live with with bipolar disorder. Don't you love that word, disorder, because that what it creates, dis - order. Should you have been more understanding? Were you wrong? I don't know, I haven't been a fly on the wall of your flat for 4 years but your responses sound ok by me. If she wants to come back? Honey, if you take her back you will need to set boundaries and establish what is negotiable and what is not in your relationship. Think of the possible consequences if you make that choice and ask yourself if you really want that. New doors open, life goes on, live it well.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: bipolobutterfly,
She's only been on meds, when she was first taken to a hospital for about a week, sometime in 2003/4. We live in an East African country (and she is an African, while I'm not), where the stigma is immense. That's why she's never taken them since that brief confinement.
Update on my previous email: She was put on "indefinite leave" for insubordination. She's not said anything to me about it, but I fear she's not going to be taken back in. Right now, if I know her, she's stubbornly holding it out in her "fort" to prove a point that she can make it on her own. I'm holding my breath.
Meantime, another friend told me to get down on my knees and pray, when the time comes for my former roommate to request for a return. Until then, well, I look out for her from a distance. She's just moved about two kilometres away from me. And as it has happened at least once a week since she left, she always initiates a "hello" SMS which I always reply to but she never sustains the exchange.
Feeling All Alone, For your benefit and that of anyone reading this reponse please bear in mind that I am not a health care professional, just someone who lives with a bipolar spouse and who has done so for 23 years. My response is offered purely on my experience, and that's all it is, my experience. If in the sharing of it you are able to gain understanding and draw something positive from it then all well and good. Take what you feel is right and leave the rest. Feeling All Alone, I'll simply respond paragraph by paragraph otherwise I'll end up writing a book. Your first paragraph explains her actions. No meds. Refusing medication, being in denial or thinking you can do it on your own, is a common thread for many with bipolar disorder regardless of cultural influences. While a person is in manic phase it will be a virtually impossible task to have them accept medication. When they do, this will open up a whole new ball game. Which medication/s, dose, effects, trial and error stage and the consequences that follow. My husband refused meds for 21 years, he has been taking medication since 2007 and to his credit he is loyal to that process of healing. My husband offers his advice here, watch for her coming down from the up, are you able to recognize it? The down time will be the most appropriate time for you to discuss treatment with her. She, however, will need to be fearless in the face of any stigma she may feel from her cultural upbringing and that is something else again. Another hurdle to overcome on the journey. Like your friend, my husband was laid off several times from various places of employ due to his mania. Excessive and unwaranted expenditure left us in financial ruin. We are since back on our feet having paid the debts with the exception of one which we will be paying until 2011. Your friend is wanting to do it on her own. I believe as human beings we are not meant to do it on our own, we have each other. Your holding your breath. Breathe deep, long and slow, let it flow, it will feel much better. You care enough to watch out for her from a distance but please do not forget yourself in all of this. She is reaching out to you via sms but while she is up she won't maintain the exchange. That's normal for where she's at right now. That's ok. It's a journey of a lifetime, literally. In the future, should you choose to continue your relationship you will need infinate patience and understanding, to be pro-active and responsible and somewhere in all of that not lose sight of yourself. Somewhere along the way she will have to be honest with herself and take responsibilty for her condition. We always have a choice. Whatever choices either of you make, whatever the outcome, I pray they will be for your highest good.
I'm coming from one who has been diagnosed with Bipolar. In that there are varying degrees of severity with the illness, I'm not sure exactly where her's fall on the scale however, given what you've typed - AND I'M NO PSYCHIATRIST, NURSE, ETC... so this is just my personal opinion she may have a more severe form and perhaps a personality disorder quirk thrown in for good measure.
Many folks with Bipolar also have a Personality Disorder which makes the Bipolar much more complicated and the person's behavior much more disruptive and chaotic.
The point of me responding though, cause I think I fell off the track here, is that for some unknown reason folks who don't have the illness tend to want to "understand" and not upset the egg pack when their "other" is inappropriately behaving or treating them abusively.
Oh, my spouse has Bipolar and is so cruel in his words and it makes me cry all the time but I don't say anything because I know it's his illness. OR, my GF/BF lashes out at me physically, breaks my things, curses me most vehemently but I say nothing nor leave nor do anything because I love her/him and I know she/he is sick.
Then you guys come on a website like this and vent and exasperate as to how your "other" is treating you and what I continually fail to understand is why you don't see that you are setting yourself up to be treated in this manner because most, if not all of you, are so willing to allow the abusive inappropriate supposed degrading treatment?
It's called boundaries folks. It's called self respect and boundaries and limits and limitations. It's called stating what you will and will not tolerate, what you will and will not live your life with, what is a consequence if the "other" doesn't follow, AND THEN following through when the "other" doesn't.
I don't give a rat's hiney if your "other" is sick. NO ONE should have to live with someone who supposedly treats them so allegedly horrendous as most, if not all of you, make your "others" out to do. If your "other" didn't have Bipolar or any type of Mental Illness and was just a Btard or Beotch in general nature, would you tolerate it less?
If you can't understand why, can't take much more, feel like it is so tormenting, then why did you allow it to start in the first place? Oh right, the "other" is sick and I'll feel guilty for standing up for my dignity and self respect.
She isn't with you, you are at a distance, she still occasionally seemingly contacts you though doesn't exchange pleasantries, you are worried cause you still love her.. okay. Yet, if she truly has Bipolar, is not willing to find some way to overcome her cultural stigma and find help and treatment, it will not get any better.
She may have moments or periods of time when all seems good but, the rocking will undoubtedly happen especially if she has the more severe form AND if by chance she does indeed have the added fuel mixture of a Personality Disorder quirk.
Mark my words. I have Bipolar and I'm saying it very clearly.
Thank you very much for sharing your experiences. I did take it from the perspective that they are your own and not from a professional's point of view. But what you've shared has really helped me to understand what happened in the past. At this point, I've moved on and am still grateful for the lessons learned.
@ corey12
Thank you for your insightful message. Truly, I did set myself up for the kind of treatment I received, never mind that it was prompted from a heartfelt concern for my friend's welfare. She had, after all, already had three suicide attempts. There were boundaries, but they were often forgotten or brushed aside by my friend. Now that we live apart, I know that it's the best recourse. I hear you and I have made a clear choice to let the status quo stand, i.e., keep the distance.
I hope you won't mind my communicating directly with you. You've mentioned a few things in your previous reply that I'd like to follow up on, especially relating to your husband's employment challenges. Again, I understand that you're not speaking as an expert, but I'd like to hear what your and your husband's personal experiences were.
My ex-roommate called me today but hung up. I called her back and we talked for more than 10 minutes--at least, she did. The essence of the conversation was that she was fired from her job again--the one where she was just recently accepted on a permanent basis. The reason was essentially that she came on too strong and had bad-mouthed her superior. I just let her talk. At the end of it, as is my wont for anybody in need, I extended a welcome should she need accommodations. (She said that she had only one-month worth of savings.) That's when her words took an interesting turn. She started with, "It's not that I want you to feel bad, but I really don't care to live with you anymore..." And then she had some strong words to say about how she wasn't happy, how she was stifled, etc. She said that her one month and a half of living by herself were the best times for her. I just kept quiet and sometimes said, "Okay."
Of course, after all that, I was really thinking that she wanted to hurt me with her words because she herself was hurting and scared. But I think I've come a long way now, so while I did get hurt, it didn't last for more than a few minutes. I've learned to know when it's her BD speaking. If I am to base it on my previous encounters with her, I know that in spite of her battering and put-downs, there might come a point when she'll still expect me to take her in until she gets back on her feet again. She says she'll move in with her elder sister and/or parents, if she should fail to find a job this month. But that's the same kind of talk she's given me since 2005.
My question is: How did you manage things with your husband during the times he was without work? Should I help her find employment? I'm actually in a position to source for some jobs for her because of my connection with several business owners. How did your husband transition from no-meds to meds? What sort of assistance did you extend to him in order to give him real practical help?
Sorry for all my questions. In spite of my growing indifference to her plight, I'm not quite made of stone yet. If there's a way I can help her without her stepping all over me again as before, then I just might take it. Times are tough as they are. As you said in your reply, we do need each other to ease life a bit. And I'm really praying hard, too, for some sort of breakthrough for her and for everybody directly or indirectly affected by mental health issues.
quote:
Originally posted by bipolobutterfly: Feeling All Alone, For your benefit and that of anyone reading this reponse please bear in mind that I am not a health care professional, just someone who lives with a bipolar spouse and who has done so for 23 years. My response is offered purely on my experience, and that's all it is, my experience. If in the sharing of it you are able to gain understanding and draw something positive from it then all well and good. Take what you feel is right and leave the rest. Feeling All Alone, I'll simply respond paragraph by paragraph otherwise I'll end up writing a book. Your first paragraph explains her actions. No meds. Refusing medication, being in denial or thinking you can do it on your own, is a common thread for many with bipolar disorder regardless of cultural influences. While a person is in manic phase it will be a virtually impossible task to have them accept medication. When they do, this will open up a whole new ball game. Which medication/s, dose, effects, trial and error stage and the consequences that follow. My husband refused meds for 21 years, he has been taking medication since 2007 and to his credit he is loyal to that process of healing. My husband offers his advice here, watch for her coming down from the up, are you able to recognize it? The down time will be the most appropriate time for you to discuss treatment with her. She, however, will need to be fearless in the face of any stigma she may feel from her cultural upbringing and that is something else again. Another hurdle to overcome on the journey. Like your friend, my husband was laid off several times from various places of employ due to his mania. Excessive and unwaranted expenditure left us in financial ruin. We are since back on our feet having paid the debts with the exception of one which we will be paying until 2011. Your friend is wanting to do it on her own. I believe as human beings we are not meant to do it on our own, we have each other. Your holding your breath. Breathe deep, long and slow, let it flow, it will feel much better. You care enough to watch out for her from a distance but please do not forget yourself in all of this. She is reaching out to you via sms but while she is up she won't maintain the exchange. That's normal for where she's at right now. That's ok. It's a journey of a lifetime, literally. In the future, should you choose to continue your relationship you will need infinate patience and understanding, to be pro-active and responsible and somewhere in all of that not lose sight of yourself. Somewhere along the way she will have to be honest with herself and take responsibilty for her condition. We always have a choice. Whatever choices either of you make, whatever the outcome, I pray they will be for your highest good.
today is the 8 of June and I have only just seen your post. I would like to ask you to watch this space for my response as I am about to step out and will not be able to get back to this before tomorrow. Until then........
Hi, Bipolobutterfly. Thank you for your brief note. I'll watch this space indeed. :-) No rush. I really appreciate your effort at wanting to share a bit about your experience. God bless you.
Feeling All Alone, I quote: " She'll still expect me to take her back in until she gets back on her feet...." I am receiving the impression she sees you as her safety net. It is imperative that you establish boundaries, impose limits, decide what is negotiable and what is not and stick to it. Look after yourself and protect your personal space. While you are in a position to source employment for her, if she is in manic phase, as she appears to be, then no amount of replacement jobs found for her will be of help because the pattern will more than likely continue to repeat itself and her reputation will follow her. You may choose to offer her a job imposing certain conditions but if she is in manic phase it is unlikely she will adhere to them. Protect your finances and do not make them freely accessible to her.
How did my husband transition from no meds to meds? By force. Every opportunity had been given to him over the years to take responsible action for his bipolarity. He had finally arrived at the point where he had accepted his condition but felt, as many do, he could manage it on his own, that he was sensitive enough to read the signs and take action before the storm hit. His manic episodes became more frequent and at closer intervals and more intense, the longest episode was 9 months in duration. His manic episodes included all of the following:
Trigger factor Seasonal factor. Extremely high levels of energy and activity including creativity. Sleep deprivation, the man could go 2 weeks with little or no sleep. Rapid speech. Extravagant expenditure dilapidating our finances to zero and incurring debts. Delusions of grandeur and hallucinations. Inappropriate sexual behaviour / sexual promiscuity. Aggressive behaviour. Self medication, alcohol / drugs. Ended up in the lock up a few times.
In 2007 he had by far his worst episode and I found myself in the yard at 6.30 in the morning with the ambulance, police and psychiatrist. I had him committed, we were fortunate to have been allocated a gem of a psychiatrist with whom I worked closely, respected, and who trusted my instincts and respected my opinions.
In our experience meds are like a pressure cooker, they keep the lid on but sometimes the vapour escapes. You cannot rely on medication alone. Other lifestyle choices must be made and adhered to. We have ongoing, regular follow ups every couple of months. Support groups are available and our local psych service is open 24 / 7 so if I want a chat I can pop in any time.
Remember, while the person is in manic phase it is likely they will be in denial, and will not accept medication. There are different levels of Bipolar disorder, everyone is different, every episode is different. Medication is likely to be trial and error, what's right for one person may not be for another.
Educate yourself as much as possible.. Surround yourself with people who are understanding. I had no one. I was and still am in a country that is not my native home speaking a language that is not my mother tongue. It wasn't easy. .
I do not consider myself a martyr or victim for remaining in and maintaining a relationship with a bipolar spouse. I made a conscious choice to do so in full awareness of the possible consequences and the implications for myself but the bottom line is, for any postive progress to be made, the bipolar person must take responsibility for themselves and this begins by them acknowledging their bipolarity and seeking professional counsel.
This is just a little, little slice of pie. We'll speak soon no doubt. Keep your Light shining.
I was just reviewing Corey12's response to your earlier post. He has some important and valuable things to offer. Self respect being one of them. Question yourself, your intentions. Be wary of "setting yourself up" in a co-dependant relationship. Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries.....You cannot do it for her..........but you can do something for yourself and perhaps by establishing boundaries and sticking to it you will in some way be helping her on her way.
I was waiting to see what bipolobutterfly's response would be. I'd been wanting to reply but since you directed your last post to her specifically, I wanted her to reply first and I agree with her.
What I wanted to add is that you mentioned, in perhaps helping your friend out with jobs that you knew of some business people in the area for whom you could maybe call or contact for some job hookups - uhm, I wouldn't do that if you still wanted to have them as associates or friends.
I say this because as bipolobutterly said in so many words; if your friend is in a manic phase or even in a depressive phase, the likelihood of her keeping a job and/or doing it well is not good based on the history you have provided here. In recommending her to your friends and/or business associates for jobs, you are essentially telling these people she'd be good for them to hire on thus laying your reputation on the line for her.
If she messes up, and likely will based on the history you provided here, then there is a great possibility that whomever hired her on your recommendation may think slightly different of you in the aftermath. You don't want to mess up your contacts for her for something she can do on her own if she would only take the responsibility necessary.
I am in full agreement with you both that boundaries must be upheld and respected. Since, yes, she is in a manic phase right now, the likelihood of those boundaries holding up for long is very nil. But is there something that I can actually do to help her even from a distance? Sure, I pray for her and all. And when she calls, as she did again today, I pick up and speak with her.
Her call today was to tell me that she plans to start her own business and to inform me what it's all about. In case I hear of anything, maybe I can "recommend" her services. I have enough influence as an entrepreneur myself to make it happen, but corey12, you're completely right about risking my own business relationships. Since psychiatric facilities are nonexistent here and I have no legal or familial right to force her into one, my heart is very, very sad for my friend. (But let me tell you, she's a street-smart woman, so she can actually be quite brilliant at what she does.)
I recognise fully that helping her is way beyond me, but what else is there to do in a society that continues to see all mental health issues as stigmas and taboos? I see the clock ticking on her as likely triggers are coming up soon that can plunge her into depression: her birthday (with no job and no relationship is just the pits) and her nephew's one-year death anniversary.
Yes, I continue to educate myself fully on BD. Since everybody in this society is in denial about it, it's only with people like you, in a forum like this that I can even speak about it, not as a curse or an evil or a demonic possession or anything like that, but as a real health issue. So the question comes up again: What can I concretely do to help her, even from a distance (the distance being very important for my own peace of mind)?
There is one very new and very small nonprofit organisation here that's devoted to mental health issues. I'm in speaking terms with the founder. Sometimes, I mull over the idea of "engineering" a meeting for both of them and having that founder take over from that point and, hopefully, take her into therapy. But I hate doing that because it's just too manipulative. So what to do? What to do?
By the way, I mentioned the upcoming triggers for a potential depressive phase. You both know what that can possibly mean to someone who's already had a history of suicide attempts. I'm not trying to second-guess her or anything like that. But I have educated myself about BD, including the statistics, so sometimes this knowledge can be too much to bear. I am holding my breath for my friend...
