Bipolar Depression

anonbp,

And one set of final thoughts - your post is triggering all sorts of responses from me .

I have responded to many on this forum with the advice to leave, get out, make sure they establish good and strong relationships with their children, protect themselves, and make a new and good life. Nearly all of them have written desperate posts indicating that their BP SOs are exhibiting severe bipolar symptoms, are denying that anything is wrong with them, and blaming all of their problems on the non-BP SO. I tried several years to make it through this situation. I even continued to try to reconcile AFTER my BP SO had left. However, at that point there was no hope. She was unable/unwilling to acknowledge the fact that she was ill. She was unable/unwilling to seek treatment. This was a devastating period of time for me and is obviously devastating for those who write here experiencing the same thing. At that point - when your BP SO is unwilling to seek treatment and acknowledge their illness and is blaming all on the non-BP - the non-BP MUST make the hard decision to get out of the relationship in order to survive and in order for the children to survive. I will not waver in that advice. It is the only way I survived. It is the only way my children could survive. Knowledge that this path offers the possibility of survival is EXTREMELY helpful to those facing this situation. I know it would have been helpful for me had it been there and had I found it. I made it through. G made it through. There is hope.

I hope you never get to the point where your husband has to think about these decisions. I hope your treatment works for you and you stay on it. You are acknowledging your illness - something my BP ex still does not do. You are seeking treatment and staying on it - again something my BP ex will not do.

Very best of luck to you

This message has been edited. Last edited by: jsmith,

Jsmith I just wanted to say thank you for adressing anon's reply to G's original post. I also wanted to say that for me G's post brought some light into my life in helping understand what is going on with my ex. I could relate to everything that he said and sometimes when I am feeling down, I go back and read his post along with some of yours, and it reminds me that leaving my husband was the RIGHT choice for me and our son. While reading G's post it reminds me what life has been like with my husband for several years, and what it would have continued to be like had I not left him. I had to read and reread anon's post before I responded because my first thought was that she has distorted thinking because alot of the things she said sounds alot like my husband. If you asked him what type of marriage we had, depending on what state of mind he was in he would lead you to believe that our marriage was flawless and like we were the model family. What he sees the marriage being and what I see it being is really on two opposite ends of the spectrum. Thats why this board is good for nonbpso's to express their feelings and know that others have been through what I have. In my experience, what you told her about the disease progressing sounds true. And its good to know that it does progress whether treated or untreated. I say this because for awhile I was angry with myself for not seeing my husband's behavior for what it was. When I finally opened my eyes I realized we were having more and more bad days than good days. I also realized how his lies were skyrocketing. And he was cycling so much that I could tell you what months out of the year he is manic and which he is really really depressed. He has gotten so bad (it could be because they put him on an antidepressant and sleeping pills)that hee just turned into someone else. I suspect he is also drinking too. Not sure what that does but my assumption is that it can't be good. Anyway after I reread anon's post it upset me some. I could understand her being upset if G's message was on the forum for only bps. However, although this forum is like you said a public forum, it is a forum designated for loved ones and significant others of people with bp. With that said, I think it was selfish for her to come on to this board and criticize G's post. Its absurd that she thinks that we are going to "walk on egg shells" for her. I think that most of us have done that enough. Instead of her coming on this forum trying to support significant others of bps she felt the need to be negative toward people who have been hurt by people with bp. If her bp is managed successfully thats great, however if it is only managed because people walk on egg shells for her then thats an entirely different story

givenup,

thanks. I agree about not wanting to walk on eggshells on this forum. When I came to this forum a few months ago, I have to say that I was still not understanding all that had happened to me, my family, my BP SO in the previous 5 to 10 years. I read some of these messages and it began to clarify for me. When G posted this message, I saw my own life. I even took his message and emailed it to a friend without comment. The friend sent back a message about how shockingly similar G's experience had been to mine. I began to realize that nearly every SO of a BP on this forum is having extremely similar experiences, although probably to different degrees of severity. For the first month G's post was up I found I was reading it several times a day. I read messages in this forum in a different way. I saw different things. And truly G's post has taken me to what I think is the final level of acceptance of this disease in my BP ex SO. I find I am not nearly so angry or resentful at her. More sympathethic. All the time realizing the destructiveness of the things she has done. But she is responsible for what she has done. Not me. Its why in messages I put on this board I point to his message often. It is the most eloquent statement of the experiences of an SO of a BP that I have ever seen. Better than anything in the medical literature. And G survived. And I figured out I survived. We all will survive if we can understand it on the level G expresses it. Given time we will make it to a new life. I don;t know if G posts or reads much any more on this forum. But I think his post should be handed out to the families of BP's when they are diagnosed. And to the BP's themselves. I think it is one of the single most valuable pieces of information here. No more eggshells for us!

Thanks G if you are still around.

[I am BP man married for 4 years - one child]

I suppose reality is
-50%(?) of marriages in the US end in divorce.
-People who are divorced have little good to say about their ex partners. (Especially after a court battle)

BP people tend to review their life endlessly,
are there any new techniques to try from a divorced BP no matter how deluded they are about X would have made a difference?

Basically the rules seem to be take your medication, go to your psychiatrist, treat your partner well.

You are telling me all bad news, is there no hope? Should I have a bipolar 'friend' to interact with when I am low/high (as long as we do not set each other off), should bipolar marry bipolar?

I was thinking pre-agreed signals
-yellow card - please leave the room
-red card - leave the room.
My partner will think it is silly but it is a small grain of hope, though it puts additional responsibility on my partner to give me clear and agreed back down signals.

Then again my Utopian little worlds are crushed by reality.

totierne,

As someone who has been the victim of a BP "hit-and-run" relationship TWICE, I have a question for you. If BP people "tend to review their life endlessly" as you proclaim, do they realize the damage they've left in their wake? And, if so, why don't they admit what they've done and apologize?

If you want to know what I've been through, just read a few of my posts. Initially, I was blaming myself for what happened because I couldn't believe that my precious guy had just suddenly turned on me for no reason. But, then I read my diary from 14 years ago and re-lived what happened with my first BP "hit-and-run" relationship (I did not know was BP until doing research about this one and noting the similarities). I now realize that I did NOTHING wrong with my latest relationship and that any normal man and I would have worked through the few issues that we had. Plus, I know feel that the "issues" were due to his undiagnosed BP.

I have a theory that I have a feeling will become fact in the future and that is that most divorces are due to undiagnosed personality disorders. Think of it -- people usually cite "communication issues" or "money issues" or "infidelity" as the cause of divorce. I feel that, upon closer inspection, it will be discovered that there are underlying reasons for these problems and those underlying reasons are due to psychological or mental illness of some sort. People don't stop communicating or overspend or cheat out of nowhere! And, these are people who felt they had selected their mate for life. There has to be more to it than just "irreconcilable differences". People just don't change that much when they are normal.

You sound like you are taking good care of yourself and your relationship. But, you sir, seem to be in the minority judging from the relationships I've seen and experienced. I think BP presents itself differently depending on the underlying characteristics of the person who has the disease. Some will become drunks and cheaters and others will overspend and lie. Some will be completely functional even when depressed.

My two BP "hit-and-run's" had very different symptoms. Guy #1 had the verbal alliterations and heightened sensitivity to visual things such seeing billboards on a street which would bother him. Guy#2 didn't eat or sleep, was addicted to caffeinated beverages and cigarettes, overspent and overextended his time. And, he lied to avoid culpability. They both manipulated me into falling in love with them when I was apprehensive at first. My two guys were HIGHLY functioning even when they left their hypomanic state (and me) and cycled into depression (?) - one was a surgeon and the other one owned an insurance agency. Although the surgeon has had lots of jobs all over the country which I thought was odd for someone with his education, talent and credentials.

Now that I am aware of the symptoms of BP, it turns out that I have more experience with them than I ever would have thought. I think people with BP also have high I.Q.'s and because I've always been attracted to "smarts", I've had more than my share of experiences with these sorts of men. These two were the only ones that I fell in love with, however, and they caused more damage to my life than anything that has happened to me both before and since (well, I'm still trying to recover from guy #2 - he disappeared the first week in November and I am still bedridden and in shock!).

This message has been edited. Last edited by: chattycathy,

totierne,

"You are telling me all bad news, is there no hope?"

I can't answer this.You tell me. Can BP's acknowledge they have a problem, take responsibility for it, seek appropriate treatment, stay on it, not blame thier SO's? The medical literature says yes they can. But if so, why is it so rare to see this? Or are we missing some who do this?

I think pre agreed upon signals are great! Wish my ex BP would have accepted that. Can BP's do that or are they so addicted to the brain chemicals they get during mania that they are unable to acknowledge that they are behaving inappropriately and destructively during manic episodes? I have no answer not having personally experienced the cycles. In another post on here I described the only successful BP situation I had seen - it was where the BP deferred his treatment decisions to the healthy spouse. My own experience was that even suggesting that my BP ex might need to get a mental health checkup was met with rage, accusations of controlling behavior by me, threats to our relationship, and a general view by her that I was somehow ruining her life. I would have been happy to give her signals and get her treatment when needed. But she would not allow it. Can you do it? Can some BP's do it and others not? From this board it sounds like some are willing. Others are not. Why? Why do 90-95% of BP's divorce? Probably it boils down to this one issue. How come a few can recognize their illness and stay on treatment - like you and anonbp? I have no answer.

Suggest your signalling technique to your SO and follow through. She will love you for it and your life will be better.

Take care and good luck

Givenup and Jsmith: I feel the same way as both of you about G’s post regarding the BP/non-BP relationship. After my short-lived but “whirlwind” romance abruptly ended by him just suddenly disappearing, I was crushed, not to mention completely confused by his sudden transformation from Jekyl to Hyde. I spent several months trying to make some sense out of what happened. How many times I questioned MYSELF and what I did “wrong” to make him behave the way he did. When I later learned that he was Bipolar, I started researching it. I actually stumbled across this forum when I did a Google search on “bipolar boyfriend disappeared”…I was astonished by how many results came back. Coincidence? I don't think so. As I started reading all of the posts here, particularly in the “Friends and Loved Ones” section, I couldn’t believe my eyes. Certainly, my situation was by and large, vastly different from many others here because my experience was so brief, yet the similarities in the descriptions of the behavior by the BP S/O were endless. In fact, I was a little reluctant initially to even post my experience because I thought compared to what most of these people have endured, I’ll be ridiculed for “venting” about something so seemingly trite. On the contrary, I received some wonderful and valuable insight from the responses. But G’s post was a real turning point for me to help put everything into perspective and help me get out of that “stuck” place I was in where I was beating myself up and wondering what I could have done differently.

When his bad behavior started manifesting toward the end, I was doing the “eggshell walk”; trying to be compassionate and understanding, reaching out to him to offer support or a shoulder to lean on (all the things he claimed were so important to him in a relationship). But it’s hard to be understanding when you don’t even understand what you’re dealing with in the first place. It seems it was easier for him to just point the finger at me by telling me I was being paranoid, projecting, and “just not helping matters”, rather than letting me in on the fact that he had this disease, hence his sudden and drastic change in demeanor. Once again, in reading these posts, I can see that this is not an uncommon characteristic, especially if they are not being treated for their illness (which, I know now, he was not). Only after digesting all of this information was I able to come to terms with the fact that no matter what I did, it wouldn’t have helped because he chooses not to deal with his illness in an appropriate, healthy manner. Instead, he chooses to blame others for why his life is so "f'd" up.

To Anonbp, I can fully appreciate your frustration and why you might be appalled at some of the things you read here. I try to put myself in your shoes and I imagine I would feel similar. But as the others have said, not only is this a public forum but this particular section is specifically addressed to the friends and loved ones of people suffering from BP. I would disagree, however, that these stories represent the worst of the worst, as evidenced by my own situation. I would have to say that my personal experience is probably the “least of the worst”. Nevertheless, this site has helped me tremendously, not only to help me get past the hurt and betrayal I was feeling, but also to gain some insight into this disease in general, and I don’t mean just the “bad, negative” stuff. I have gotten glimpses into the lives of people who have BP and the struggles they face on a daily basis; information I never would have gotten from just the medical journals and their clinical descriptions of bipolar. I was really angry and resentful toward this man for what happened but I no longer feel that way. I just think it’s a shame that he refuses to come to terms with it himself and get the help that he needs because he’s actually quite a brilliant person; highly educated, unbelievably intelligent. And when he wasn’t in the throes of what I’m assuming was mania, he had a very engaging personality. If only he could channel that into something productive and meaningful, what a difference he could make. Personally, I think by refusing to acknowledge and seek help for their illness, those BP’s actually perpetuate the “stigma” of it more so than the S/O’s who are trying to understand it by sharing their stories on forums such as these; since it is the very absence of treatment that seems to bring out all of these horrible behaviors that we read about here.

see anonbp, this its what its all about. we're NOT here to "bash bp's". we come here to get insight and offer insight. thats something we cant/couldn't get from our s/o. some are here after living bp,some are here while living bp and some are contemplating enetering into the bp world. you may say the i should not use the term "bp world",but that is what in fact it is..another world. its a world of unknowns,confusion,and unanswered questions. and thats all from the non bp side. its not the person,its the illness. each of us loves our s/o dearly,we hate the illness. unfortunatley er have very little idea of how the bp feels. after months of reading on many different sites i have yet to come acrross a bp asking why thier s/o is upset or questioning why their s/o doesn't unerstand them,or why they may have left. i did read bps talking about what the illness has done to them,but never what its done to the s/o.
many of us are asking how to help our s/p,we are aware that our lives will be hetic,yet we want to stay and help. the only way to help our s/o is to help ourselves undertsand what we are dealing with. medical info only deals with the outersymtoms,we all know them,it only tells s/o to be supportive,but never how!

now if you want to help ,then share what goes on in your head,what does mania feel like,what can we do to help,what should we do to help.do you(bp) know what you are capable of,do you share this with your s/o.

Mystified: I can also relate to the disappearing acts. My husband used to do that early in our relationship while dating. I never really understood it but he said that he was always so afraid that I was going to leave him. At that point I didn't understand why he thought I would leave him.....(during this time I didn't even realize anything was wrong with him). The disappearing acts stopped for about a year and though he was still struggling with overcoming his childhood abuse, not to mention that as an adult he was still being abused physically and emotionally by his family I really thought that we could work together to overcome things. He had promised me that if I married him he would be strong enough to help overcome the obstacles in his life because he knew I would be there for the long haul. Shortly into our marriage he told me that he was tired of pretending to be something that he was not and that now that we were married he was going to "be who he really is". I had no idea what he was talking about. But he turned into someone I would have never even dated and he refused therapy, and I started finding out unimaginable things about him and left him. For about a year or a little more we heard very little from him and then one day out of the blue he showed up on my parents doorstep in tears. He apologized for all that he had done wrong, said that he had been working on getting himself together, said that he had built a strong relationship with God, and he really wanted us back. I'm not sure why, but I believed him and we tried again. Things were good for awhile, but shortly after he started playing the blame game again, was unreasonably jealous, started drinking heavily, started cheating again, etc. And when I asked him why he was behaving this way he told me "I want you know that life isn't perfect" he also said "he just wante to bring me down to his level so that I could know how he feels". We separated again. Then got back together with him being in therapy on his own. After so many years of the back and forth I finally realized that there was a pattern which was pretty much what G's post explained. And of course that pattern kept repeating until finally I've decided to stop it. I also realize that there is nothing that I did wrong, and nothing that I did was going to change the situation. The thing about bp is that the deep depression is easy to spot, so all these years I thought he was depressed because of his past life...........as time went on I came across something about bp and bpd and he fits the description of both. The knowledge helps ease the pain for me but of course at this point it is still there. I can't remember if it was G's post or not, but someone said that even with the meds if the relationship was built on deception the deception would still continue, this let me know that there is no hope and I have to end this relationship once and for all. I think Rob is right that it would be good to hear from some bps who have some insight. I've always wondered why some bps can live a life of lies and then get mad at you when you decide to leave. I also wonder what he meant by bps review their life endlessly. before I knew what bp was, I thought that my husband kept running in circles because he didn't take the time to learn from his mistakes....now I realize that it may have been the disorder. Also I want to know why they can pretend to be kind gentle and loving to the outside world and treat their families like crap?

Givenup: Oh, the disappearing stuff...how on earth did you find the strength and courage to handle that. The few times it happened with mine (before the "grand finale") it drove me nuts...and these were just short disappearances. One time we were chatting on IM and he just simply stopped. He was still online but just plain stopped talking. I couldn't leave him voice messages because his phone wasn't "accepting messages" and he wouldn't reply to any of my IM's. It was two days before he finally reappeared and gave me some horrible excuse that something kind of bad happened to one of his kids. Evidently he felt the need to fabricate this story because I had "jumped to conclusions" that he was intentionally ignoring me and was upset with him for it. As I would later learn, the whole story was made up because he just wasn't feeling well at the time but didn't want to admit that to me (this was the lie he referred to as being "innocuous"). I mean, who in their right mind would create such a story, using their own kid no less as a scapegoat, to excuse their own behavior?! But I guess "right mind" is the operative term here.

I think about all the craziness I experienced in those two months, and in my mind I multiply that by hundreds and try to factor marriage and children into the equation, and I have some idea of what it must be/have been like for you and the others here. The confusion, the frustration, the back and forth with emotions, the hurt, the betrayal. I consider myself a reasonably strong, independent person but honestly I think I would have ended up in an institution after going through what you guys have. It seems that all of you are living proof that "that which doesn't kill us makes us stronger."

Mystified:

I'm not exactly sure how I handled the disappearing acts. I think that for the most part I had a lot of other positive things going on in my life that I tried not to let it bother me. Also by the time he would do his disappearing acts, I was pretty much overwhelmed with seeing him so depressed, and hopeless that I often felt that if he disappeared and was able to resolve the issues with his family of origin I thought that he would get passed this. Thats whats so strange is he led me to believe all this hurt and pain that he was feeling was caused by his family,..especially his mother. And knowing how cruel these people could be, I believed him. I tried to give him space and time, but even after being together over a decade the depression was still there. He was good at covering up the fact that he was actually suffering from a mental illness. It was bad for us but not nearly as bad as it could have been because I wasn't around him all the time. Our jobs separated us sometimes for months, and me furthering my education also kept us apart at times. Once when we were living apart for job reasons I remember him telling me that he sits in his apartment and cries wondering if his family would ever love him. Being an adult, and having my own life I could not understand where or how he found time to sit around thinking about that. I mean my life is pretty full and I stay busy so its hard for me to stay feeling down too long. At this point I requested that he go back to therapy. He basically tried to tell the therapist all the things I was doing to make him unhappy. For the first time he was honest enough to say that his therapist disagreed with much of what he was saying because all she saw me doing was being a positive person and doing the right things. He said she asked him why he was upset with me for doing all the right things, and then she ultimately figured out that something else was going on with him. I'm not sure if she suspected bipolar but he stopped going to her. When I got him to go to therapy a year later I told him that maybe he could get his records from her so that his new therapists could have some background info since he was having a hard time talking to her. He refused. Looking at things clearer, something tells me that he knew even when we were dating that he was bipolar. Before he got a diagnosis and I was ending things with him he asked me how I could end things with him when I know that he is sick. That was the first time he had ever said that. Mystified all I can say is be glad that you didn't marry your guy or have children with him. I always wonder about our son being hurt by him emotionally. At one point he was writing manipulating letters to our son and much of what he was saying was the same crap he had said to me. I know I have a long road before I can say that I survived, but at least I'm feeling better and my son and I have some peace and stability in our life. I'm sorry if you posted this somewhere else, but how did you know that your ex was bipolar? Did he drink as well or was he trying to self medicate?

Hi Givenup:

The way I found out he was bipolar: When he first disappeared I tried several times to reach out to him by IM mostly and also by a letter I sent by mail, but to no avail. It was two months later when I saw him online and decided to give it a shot. I was surprised that he actually responded. He was cordial but still very distant and formal in his responses. He actually apologized for his "behavior" and then later in the chat came out and said he has bipolar. He said he was getting treatment for it, on "heavy duty meds" and that he "thinks he's getting better." I actually felt a glimmer of hope when I heard that, until I started reading these boards and learned how frequently those same words are spoken over and over.

The reason I believe he's not compliant is because earlier in our relationship he admitted that he suffered a major depression the previous year, and that it was so bad, he had to receive treatment for it). I was very understanding and supportive (my mom had suffered from seasonal affective disorder so I was familiar with depression). In fact, he seemed surprised by my understanding. He said that he started feeling better month by month and was "back to normal" at that point and "no longer in need of medication." I had asked if he had ever had a similar incident in the past, and he said "once or twice, but never that severe". He had also told me how he was very into partying and smoking pot during his college days but that he doesn't do that anymore. However, the very first night we met (we had initially met online and had chatted through IM and the phone extensively before actually meeting) we had wine. I remember that I was just taking my second sip and his glass was already empty! I honestly remember thinking to myself "did he spill it and I didn't notice?" but the second glass went just as fast as the first. Not a good sign! (But did I heed the little alarm going off in my head? No!)

Anyway, during our last chat (when he told me about the bipolar) I had already come to the conclusion that this was not a recent diagnosis. I didn't ask and he didn't say, but I just began putting two and two together. He was talking about how empty and lost he felt, so I was trying to be supportive and suggested that he give the meds time to work. I tried to encourage him by saying that it was good he was getting treatment, and he tersely responded "I've been getting treatment for 15 years" and then abruptly ended the conversation. But obviously since he had previously admitted stopping the medication after that last depression because he was "feeling better", it seems that he either self medicates or just seeks treatment during the depressed phase and doesn't do anything for the manic phase. Just my guess from the little I know.

Whoa! Mystified, what a story!

So, he knew full well that he had this disease and has had it for over 15 years. Just goes to prove my theory that all the men who are on dating sites are nuts! I think my guy knows he's got it too, judging by some of the roundabout ways he asked for "help". Oh, "can you deal with it using humor?" he asked. Sounds like something a shrink would suggest as a coping mechanism. Well, it would have helped if he could have TOLD me what I was dealing WITH!!

I'm still waiting for the BP guy on here to answer my and givenup's question as to if BP's are endlessly reviewing their lives, are they able to admit what they've done? Do they feel remorse? And, why do they pretend to be sweet and loving in the outside world and treat their loved ones like crap??

I read a posting by a BP male in England who keeps an online diary and he says that he has only so much mental ability to hold it together and sometimes it takes 90% of that ability just to get through the day and act normal at work and going to and from work. Some days it' only requires 20% of his efforts to appear normal. And, he says that he stays in the house and sometimes runs in the house to avoid just having to talk or say "hello" to a neighbor. Any neighbor. On those 70-90% days, he says he just disappears from his girlfriend because he just can't deal with another human being. It makes sense. Sometimes I just want to hibernate too - like I'm doing now.

But, it still doesn't explain why your guy would be online looking for women unless he doesn't actually meet them - maybe he just chases and charms them from afar? That's what my guy was doing, with girls in Paris, the East Coast, etc, at least for a while. Then, I guess it subsides and they venture out into the real world again, only to cycle back and forth when they have genuine interactions with real people.

Still doesn't explain how or why my guy was able to travel to Mexico for New Years with his friends.

Regards to everyone for a calm and pleasant new year. Oh, and mystified, thanks for posting about that other BP web board. I am now reading that one as well. You are just a wealth of information!

CC: In my ex's case, I am convinced that the online stuff serves several purposes for him: First, he has essentially alianted everybody from his life; estranged from his siblings for many years, supposedly never saw his parents again after leaving home for school, horrible relationships with his ex-wives, and no friends (I mean NO friends, reportedly because those that he had in college or through work ended up being "messed up" or stabbed him in the back). So it fills a void in his life. Secondly, I think he has such low self esteem that its an ego boost. Like I've said before, he was utterly charming and endearing during the first month. He's an attractive guy and the words on his profile are magnificent; not necessarily boastful or poetic, but very captivating. He definitely knows how to play it and I'm sure he gets many "hits" when he's online.

And lastly, I think it allows him to live in a sort of fantasy world; to be the person he really believes he is but can't actually live up to in the real world, without anybody being the wiser.

I kind of wonder whether he sets out to actually meet anybody. It was more than three weeks before he and I first met in person, but the "stalling" was on his part. In fact, I found it a bit refreshing that he "wanted to get to know eachother first", whereas most of these guys want to "score" with you 10 seconds after you exchange greetings. Plus, he had given me enough "verifiable" information about himself (which I of course verified) for me to feel comfortable that he was who he said he was. We would talk for hours, first by IM then by phone, and I was really taken by his willingness to reveal so many things about himself, showing me his "vulnerable" side. (Obviously, his revelations were selective.) And to top it off, he had the sweetest, softest voice. Very kind and gentle sounding. But I'll never forget the last time we ever spoke on the phone when he was so aggitated and mean. It was as if he took on somebody else's voice altogether; scratchy and harsh...very frightening. I don't know anything about the concept of split personalities (I think they call it dissociative personality) but it really seemed like I was talking to a completely different person that night.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mystified,

As I wrote once before, I've been married to a BP for almost 30 years--and I've never seen any "endlessly reviewing." For the many years that lithium worked, he was a happy, charming man--not deep, not reflective, but fun. He certainly never thought of himelf as "ill" (a lot of denial there). When he's manic, he's demanding, bossy, irrational in what he expects of others--certainly never perceptive about his own behaviors. Manic he KNOWS he's right--and that there's nothing wrong with HIM, although he now admits he's BP, even flaunts it because it's become a crutch for him, an excuse for his irrtional behavior. He says, "I'm a little manic," which disarms people--they think, oh,l is that all manic means? They don't know the truth.

I'm not even sure there's much self-reflection going on when he's depressed. It's just all raw feeling--bad feelings, but no real self-understanding or even introspection. No rational understanding of those feelings.

And to anonbp, we aren't stereotyping--we're just sharing our experiences--and it's amazing how similar they are. I hope you can continue to control your bp, but my husband always took his meds as well; he's still taking his meds and seeing both a psychiatrist and a psychotherapist--but the medications obviously no longer work--and apparently neither has psychotherapy. He's still on a self-destructive path. Oh, he takes care of surface business, sees that bills are paid, is building a tax file--but he's no longer really capable of an adult relationship, and sooner or later depression will hit and he will be alone in a crummy hotel room. None of this is his fault, of course. He has no control of his emotions. He is bipolar.