Bipolar Depression

Mystified my soon to be ex used two of the lines that you stated. He would also say things like he couldn't be who I wanted him to be??? I'm thinking then why did you start out lying and pretending to be something you weren't. And besides you mean to tell me you can't be an honest, respectable, responsible adult? Then why would I want you????

Hi Givenup,

Still to this day, four months and dozens of postings later, it still doesn't cease to amaze me how many similarities there are in what I read and what I experienced (albeit for a very short period of time). I went through that very same hair-pulling, irrational conversation:

Him: "I'm sorry I'm not all that you expected"

Me: "My expectations are only based on all the things you told me about yourself, the feelings you said you had, and how you acted toward me just a few weeks ago. I'm just trying to understand what has changed."

Him: "Well, I try my best, but sometimes it's just not good enough."

I find it curious that so many have used such similar, almost "coined" expressions in their responses. Anybody else find it peculiar?

Hi all,

A friend of mine thinks that it's because they are embarrassed about who they are and they really believe that they are these "good guys" - so they "pretend" to be who they want to be (the charming, romantic guy is really how they see themselves) - then they can't keep it up because of their mental issues and because reality catches up with them (like in my case).

It also explains why they leave with no exlanation - like, what are they gonna say - "Oh, I misrepresented who I am and you never got to know the real me and if you did, you wouldn't love me." They don't want to admit it - they are afraid to admit it and they don't have to admit it. They have no empathy for anyone but themselves. Why would they care if they are leaving scarred women in their wake?

My guy even accused me of scarring and wounding him because I didn't think it was appropriate for me to travel to another state to spend time with a man who was still checking into a dating site twice a day. I thought this was a very bad sign and he could give me no reason for why he was doing it. He told me that he just wasn't thinking and didn't realize what it looked like. He said he "made a mistake" and that he wasn't "perfect" and that he would make more mistakes and I would have to forgive him because he truly loved me and I was his soulmate who he had been searching his whole life for. He accused me of "dumping" him over this and begged and pleaded with me to "give him another chance". I had been very nice and gave him an explanation and told him that he could still call me and I would still continue to see him when he came to my state. I was very sweet and understanding. I just wasn't ready to make such an emotional commitment and travel to another state for him at that point. AFter the begging and pleading, and convincing on the part of my friend who lives in his state, I agreed to give him a second chance - he said he would "be better" and "try harder" to earn my trust. He told me that he knew that what he did had hurt me and that he would make it up to me. I kept telling him that he didn't hurt me - NOW HE'S HURTING ME AND I'VE TOLD HIM AND HE HAS NOTHING TO SAY.

Two months later in his state, when I discovered he had been misrepresenting himself, mine kept saying "I'm doing the best I can", "I can only be who I am" (which is similar to "I'm sorry I'm not living up to expectations"), and then there was "Oh Please", and "Give me a break". Of course these were all said when I was confronting him with something I had just discovered. And, mind you, this man had never spoken to me like that before - it was a DIFFERENT VOICE!

My guy would calm down the next day and act rationally - he explained the spending and also explained the house-hunting debacle (after wasting a realtor's time showing me houses to rent, he didn't discuss them at all, and when I asked about it, he admitted he didn't have the money for the 1st and last month's rent). I was insecure the 2nd week in his state because the house issue was dropped (and that was the main reason I drove out there) - and he didn't explain himself until I was back home in my state for a week and confronting him about it. He apparently was waiting for a "settlement" to come in from some hospital he had worked at.

Oh, I could just scream!! (And, considering what he put me through, I should have!)

quote:

Originally posted by chattycathy:
Hi all,

A friend of mine thinks that it's because they are embarrassed about who they are and they really believe that they are these "good guys" - so they "pretend" to be who they want to be (the charming, romantic guy is really how they see themselves) - then they can't keep it up because of their mental issues and because reality catches up with them (like in my case).

It also explains why they leave with no exlanation - like, what are they gonna say - "Oh, I misrepresented who I am and you never got to know the real me and if you did, you wouldn't love me."

Hi CC,

Yes! That really does seem to be an accurate assessment. And I guess with the distorted thinking process, they don't factor in up front that the charade can't possibly last forever, nor are they able to grasp that you can't continue repeating the same behavior over and over...yet somehow expect different results. I honestly believe that they do feel remorse and guilt for their actions, yet they can't seem to control those actions; so the pattern continues. But again, this illness simply doesn't allow for that type of rational thinking.

I've also been reading a lot about Borderline Personality Disorder, which can sometimes be present with Bipolar. The more I read, the more I believe that this guy also had BPD. It is often characterized by the term "I hate you, don't leave me." Their world is black and white with no in between. They will idealize you one minute (which mine did as things started progressing between us) and then after some perceived threat of abandonment, devalue you and find you loathesome. In most relationships, one partner can recognize the other partner's "shortcomings" but that doesn't change their feelings. You can feel pissed off or angry with them for something they did, yet it still doesn't change the fact that you love and accept them. However, with the BPD person, the two emotions cannot co-exist. It's either I love you or I can't stand you.

Also, the fear of abandonment is so severe for them, that they will often be the one to abandon the relationship first. However, they will usually tell others that they were abandoned, and the person who left them was evil. This guy I was with used similar terminology to describe previous relationships. He would tell me how "several women just left, just decided not to be with me anymore." Another time he said, "I know the hurt and pain of abandonment, and I would just never do that to you; I'm not that kind of person." So I guess that in his mind, the more I started to ask about the change in his behavior, I became the "evil" person, and the previous woman he saw as "quintessential" (his word, not mine) no longer existed, so it was time for him to bolt. IMHO

Hi M,

OMG - That's what I think happened with my guy. Once he had "turned" we had one conversation to make arrangements to exchange stuff on my doorstep. During that 6 sentence conversation, I told him that he has 95% of the hypomanic symptoms and that it's OK, that he's gonna have these issues with anyone he tries to have a relationship with, so he may as well work them out with me. He said nothing.

I am the child of a woman with undiagnosed Borderline disorder. I also have some of the symptoms - I used to do the "splitting" thing where you can't handle any criticism at all - people are either with you or against you. I used to leave friendships and quit jobs because in my mind, I perceived that I was going nowhere and that I wasn't appreciated. I have had a lot of therapy and I have overcome it. I don't have the full-blown disorder, but my mother does and it is the reason I am so insecure and afraid of being abandoned.

My guy never expressed these fears, but he knew that I had them. The only woman who abandoned him was his wife and it was after almost 20 years of togetherness. From what I have heard about her from a third party, I do believe that she was BP and that they had a long-term co-dependent relationship that she finally blew out of. He was still trying to come back. And, I think it was because she was very rich and was going to become even richer. I think she and her wealthy family would bail him out of bad situations. He even admitted to me that when the hospital he worked for closed down, that they asked her family for money and they refused. Then she asked him to move out shortly afterward. They sold their $2 million dollar house and he told me that she got all the profits when the divorce became final. Then, two months later, he told me that they were still in the process of settling the financials. He had opened a bill from the forensic account that upset him and when I asked why, he told me. I decided that he was upset enough, so I didn't mention the fact that he had told me everything had already been settled. Caught in yet another lie! Oh well, I'm just thankful that I went there for 2 weeks with my eyes opend and didn't just move there to find out all of this 6 months later!!!

And, to think he used to say that he was concerned that I would discover something and make all kinds of incorrect assumptions based on it. Yeah, my suspicions were really wrong, weren't they??

BTW, Mystified, have you ever read a book called "Men Who Can't Love" - it's about commitmentphobic men who give you the mad rush and then just disappear. Check it out at a bookstore - you can probably read it in an hour just while sitting there. It's a paperback. Someone told me about it when the first guy did this to me 14 years ago and it helped. The first guy lived down the street from me, so I never really had the opportunity to live in his surroundings and see if he had the other bipolar symptoms like this latest one did. But, they had two things in common - they both liked to look at pictures of me - the first one took my photo business card to his office and attached it to is computer screen - and they both gave me expensive gifts - guy #1 - diamond bracelet - guy #2 - expensive digital camera. But guy #1 never made the emotional connection like the second guy did. Guy #1 was rather closed off and unemotional - I thought he was the "strong silent type" - boy was I wrong!

Thank you for being kind. My boyfriend has sense been to the doctor and has started therapy. He's also talking about further help for both of us to get through this.

If he tries, I'll continue to try with him. If he gives up, then I'll know it's time to walk away. I have limits and he knows what they are.

quote:

Originally posted by jsmith:
Tara Lynn,

It appears that you want to hear from people who have been with BP partners and have them tell you that your situation seems like one of the 5% that will work.

Personal grievances aside as you request, I unfortunately cannot in good conscience give you that advice. My own experience is of 20 years married to a BP wife (but only really finding it out after she left) and observing her life after she left.See my other posts in order to read of this tragedy. You are correct that they can be passionate and seductive. They can also be mean and blame you for eveything.

Read G's post: http://forums.healthcentral.com/discussion/bipolar/foru...f/2651085/m/75710961

As your BP goes through more cycles, it is likely that his symptoms will become more extreme.Its nice he says he will get on proper meds for you.Why don't you ask him to do so and find out if he does? A BP not on proper meds is not a good thing.BP's will often make these promises, often tell you they are on proper meds, but in fact they are self medicating.

I had a number of wonderful years with my BP wife, a number of puzzling years, and a number of years from hell until she left blaming me for all her problems. This is a common pattern.

As I have stated (and many others have stated) on this forum, I would not do it again. It was awful for me, for my kids, for friends, for everyone in contact with the situation. The negative effects linger today and will likely linger always for all of us. You are setting yourself up for a life of pain and heartache.

I am not a believer in the idea that there is only one person in the world for each of us. I believe there are many possibilities for all. I believe that among those possibilities there are some for each of us who are not bipolar. Find one of those for yourself. Find a good life for yourself while you can.

You say your SO's other relationships have all ended badly. Take a hint from those. In this case practice does not make perfect.

Sorry that this is not the advice you want to hear. It is likely not the advice I would have wanted to hear 25 years ago.And if someone had given it to me I might well have ignored it. But my life would have been better if I had followed advice to not be involved with a bp.So I am giving what i now know to be good advice to you.

Find someone else. Do not give in to the seduction of a BP in trade for the future of pain you will face. There are many other people in the world who you can meet and have a longterm loving, caring, realationship with who are not BP and who will care about you.Fortunately for me I found one several years after the bp spouse left. I would have been way better off if I have found one 25 years earlier.

Good luck and take care

I was and have been pushing meds for a long time. I however wanted him to do it for himself so we didn't have to worry about him quiting or lying about him taking them. He has a better chance of taking the medications if it was his choice and not mine.

I will also continue reading. I wont stop. It helps both of us to know what's happened to other people. That way we know what some signs are to look for that you kind find in a book.

I will continue to try also as long he tries. If he gives up, I know what I'll have to do.

quote:

Originally posted by rob:
i dont know if there is such a thing as "good advise" in bipolar.if you "know alot about BP"then you probably would already be pushing for med therapy.that hasn't happened yet so read more!any behavoir that you have experienced with him or heard of from him should be expected to be repeated.the inernet stuff...expect more.if someone could come up with a way to break the behavoir pattern and all there was to deal with was the modd swings Bp might be more tolerable.but knowing they will do the same stuff in the next episode is hard to deal with.you also said he has benn honest with you from day one,douptful!maybe some honesty but...well,they tend to say what you want to hear.and if its not what you want to hear then its your fault.

7 months is hardley enough time to experience all that Bp has to offer or dish out.for some(wife included) their hypomania lasts that long.followed by mania then depression.the entire cycle takes 8-9 months ,then it starts all over again. 18 years so far for me.each year it seems to get worse.i can only hope i've seen the worse.we are now on meds.by the way be prepared for the med rollercoaster also.so far thats been a nightmare.rapid cycles througout the day,side effects worse then the illness itself,in and out of docs,lost work,then switching meds for better results,and starting all over again.

good luck in whatever desicion you make,for me i'll stay as long as she continues to try.

Thank you all for your stories and advice. I found it odd that people tried to be supportive in some ways but failed to be positive. While being bipolar is hard on wives, children, and all people around them it doesn't mean we're better than them. It also doesn't mean that they are destined to live a life alone, childless and out-casted. I always wondered why some bipolar wanted to die, since people sit and talk about them like they have no feelings other than about them selves. Then I joined other boards and read, and I noticed people almost deem them unloveable people you need to run away from. I don't feel that it always the truth.

Yes, we all have a limit. Even I do. I have no idea what's ahead of me. It could be very bad, very good, or even some where in the middle. I have no idea. I do know that my boyfriend though he may not be what society says is normal, I know he deserves a life. He deserves to be loved. It seems family love is all they are mostly left with (if they are lucky) and I find that depressing myself. I wouldn't want to live a life like that. A life where people bad mouth my illness and expect the worst out of me at every second.

With all do respect to those who loved a bipolar person, I know you all tried. I know you all cried like I have. I know you all really wanted to help. I'm not trying to pretend I know you, or understand what you've been through. I can only talk from my own personal experience. With that said I can say, my boyfriend went to medication again, after he said he never would. He listens when I tell him he's wrong. While he does lie, I know he didn't want to hurt me. I know he's insecure, and needs constant help and to reminded and do that. I've learned to not take on him, what his illness makes him. I've also learned that doing his treatment together helps more than making him go do it on his own.

I cried a lot reading these posts. Wondering if, or when this would happen to me. I'm scared, however I keep educating myself because to me he is worth it. If my child was bipolar I wouldn't want them to not be loved. For people to fear them and run as soon as the word is brought up. In some of the situations I've read, I would have left too. My boyfriend is very aware while I do love him, I have to love myself too. He's also aware I will leave if some of the things happen that I've read, happens to me. For those of you who lived in pain, I applaud you for your efforts. I truly do. I'm very sorry for you tears, heart ache and pain. I though, don't feel the right thing for me to do is run from him when he is trying so hard.

There are bipolar people out there who have done well. Who have married. Who have stayed married and who have children and do well. I believe that some bipolar try harder than others. I do believe some people are just bad in life also and you don't have to be bipolar to cheat, lie and hurt people. To me that means people are people. Some are bad, some are good and some are just in the middle. I don't believe a illness can make you who you are if you don't allow it too. Just like someone who is depressed isn't sad all the time, every women who has postpartum doesn't kill their children and every person with any kind of disorder or obstacle in their life isn't just their illness.

Maybe I am wrong. Maybe all these things will happen to me. I'm willing to admit that. I know though, I will try. He'll know that I tried. His family will know I tried. His friends will know that I tried. Everyone will know that I tried. Most of all though, I'll know that I did everything I could. He will try everything he can, and if he fails to take his medication, he fails to keep trying and talking to me, then I will look at my choice and see if I need to make a new one.


Thank you all for being honest. Thank you for sharing, and even trying to save me. I do appreciate every word written. I really hope in the future that all bipolar aren't stereo typed. Even if I'm hurt by this man, I'll never treat every person the same, group them up and label them all horrible, rotten liars, who need to live alone and have no children. Maybe I'm not jaded enough or maybe in my life full of horrible pain that was from a manic depressive father, I know a little more of what could happen then ya’all think. Thank you again.

i just wanted to say i do agree with you that the simple "run away" approach is not always right.if everyone abandons BP's then where can the go.should we lock them on a deserted island.i think not.i have no intention of leaving my wife because she is BP.i will however leave if she becomes violent or when i am afraid to go to sleeep.already had those thoughts a few times.
your said "While he does lie, I know he didn't want to hurt me. I know he's insecure, and needs constant help and to reminded and do that. I've learned to not take on him, what his illness makes him. I've also learned that doing his treatment together helps more than making him go do it on his own."
i'm sure he doesn't want to lie and hurt you,but you must understand that it is something he cant control yet.i say yet because maybe he can overcome some of the behavoirs.not taking on BP,him or the illness,if letting it win.that i guaranty.i think its great that you are going to do therapy together,you will be one of the lucky few.you may be waiting awhile for him to start on meds if you want him do do it on his own.once again you may be one of the lucky few.will you be lucky enough that they work and that he stays on them.

i think its great that you want to stand by him and not run,but i fear you may be underestimating this monster.remember this,untreated ,it only gets worse,each episode causes irriversable brain transmitter damage.there is no proven treatment to reverse the damage,only thoeries and experimentals.
to say that most people talk about them,is incoorect,most people dont know anything about BP,the family and freinds dont ussualy see the bad side,its saved for those closest,the ones that can be hurt the most.noone said they wasn't loved,in fact i think there is possbly a stronger love for BP's.abd at the same time a hate feeling,not for the person,but the illness that takes them away from us.and thats what it does.i've lost a part of my wife that can never be gotten back,the honest,part.even if she never tells another lie in her life the damage has been done.can one promise not to break a promise they already broke?

you cannot compare a BP child to a BP adult.it sacares me because my 14 year duaghter is showing signs of BP( or some form)in fact we just got back from having her sent to a teen home.at 14 its hard to determine if there is a mental problem.i can only hope not.

once again,take care and good luck

rob

Hi Rob.

I too would not leave my boyfriend because he is bipolar. If he did hit me, or I felt my life was in danger I would leave. I'm sorry you already, have those thoughts. I have no idea how that feels.

He is starting meds on his own. He was drunk and lashed out at me a few weeks ago. I told him the next morning what happened, what he said and how I felt. It was his idea and he was very embarassed and upset with him self. I would hope he would stay on it. His brother who is also bipolar, is taking a medication and it's working well. He's trying that. I'm hoping it will work, if not we'll keep trying. I really don't believe it's going to be easy all the time. I'm sorry if I came across that way.

Maybe we come from different places. I've known about bipolar for years. It could also be our age. I'm 26, I know it's not been talked about for many years. I know most people think it's something it's not. Other don't take it as serious as it is, however, I was talking about people on here. Other sites as well. It seems like it's very negative. I've read a lot and it upsets me. I saw a lot of runs, get out while you can, and other horriable things. I know not all people feel that way but while some do, it will bother me. I also understand some people rightfuly have bitterness, or pain toward the subject. I try to remember that when I read as well. That's what I was saying though.

I also wasn't compareing a child BP to a adult. I was saying as a mother I wouldn't want my child treated that way. I wasn't saying it's the same thing. I have no child with bipolar so I have no idea how it would be for me. I simply was saying that I would want them to be loved and try to live a normal, happy life. I wouldn't want people to talk about my child like a monster, call them a liar, and act as if they have no right to a life with other people besides their family in it. I understand why you would be scared. I would be too and I sincerly send you my best wishes and hopes.

Thank you for your time. Take care of your self too Rob. Best wishes.

Tabatha

Tabatha Lynn,

You are obviously a warm, caring, loving, and wonderful person. Anyone would be lucky to have someone like you to care about them. Please know that I wish absolutely the best for you and sincerely hope that you are one of the few lucky ones. Keep yourself in mind throughout. And know that not all healthy SO's of BPs choose to leave. At least as often, the BP partner leaves in spite of the non-bp's wishes to stay together.If that happens to you, know that there are many others who will be capable of and eager to share a life with such a fine person as you.

Take care and good luck.

JSmith~

Each time you've written to me, I've thought you've been very kind and warm as well. I really appreciate your kindness and your thoughts.

If he does leave, cheat, or harm me, I will keep my self in mind. I know it will be hard for me because, I really do want it to work. I know though, that I can't stop living my life to help him. I am glad people like you are here to remind me of that. It is hard time to time. To sit, and wonder if it will happen, and how long I have. It breaks my heart.

I do have a chance though, like in every relationship. I do have a lot of help. It isn't all on me and that really helps. His family is very behind me and him. We all want him to get help and continue treatment. Everyone wants us to work as well. I'm hoping that will help us.

Thank you so much for the things you said about me. I saved them so if I need to, I can come back to them. I can tell you have been through some hard times, and I thought maybe you thought I would need them one day. Thank you for that.

Sincerly,
Tabatha

Tlynn,