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I have read alot of the post and they all seem similar. We have all been on the RoLlEr CoAsTeR of BP. It doesn't get easy. For me as I learn more I feel like I am getting sucked into his personal hell. I love him dearly but he has to find comfort in anothers arms. That is a personality trait fuels by his mania. I feel like giving up somedays but I can't we have 2 boys who need one of us to be stable. When he is manic he regressises to a 17 year old. He gets so angry with everything and its scary. He never has touched me but will he ever? I don't know. And Now that we are seperated I find myself asking these questions I kept buried in my mind. And if he truely walked in the door would I take him back? I don't know. I would love to say NO WAY. But I can't control my heart. And I knwo the longer we are spereated the easier it will be. Right now we have only been seperated a month and he wasn't completely seperated. He was living with me, sleeping in the bed and other things. I know its wrong but it felt like I still had a connection to him during his mania. He has left to go to his GF in NC and they are driving up here. He will be out on Sunday. I have seen it before. I became codependant apon him. I feel like I am losing my mind sometimes. It so hard. I take my prozac everyday and when I need it I take a Klonopin. He self medicates with weed and vicodin and xanax. I am felling like my world is crumbling and he is so calm about the major life choices he has made. He did cry when I dropped him off at the airport this morning. It hurts and he knows that we can not go back and forth. At least I think he does. Well I don't know I am dealing with it and keeping my focus on taking care of the kids and getting my life straight.
It sounds like you know you have started taking some corrective actions and you ae concerned that it will be difficult to maintain your resolve. Is there something specific you would like help with?
Posts: 28 | Location: New Jersey | Registered: 11-01-2007
When your loved one comes off mania and there is alot of damage how do you handle your emotions with them. This has been the worst episode yet and alot of hurt feelings have come about from this and to some extent I know he had no idea of the damage that was being done but I want to tell him all the hurt that so many of us have experianced. I have made a choice and I know I can't be with him while he is unmedicated but I don't want him to feel attacked. any advice
If you read some of the posts on this site you will see that the chances of your SO remaining on his medication successfully are small. A few BP's are successful. Most are not. Some who are not successful for a while, do eventually succeed in staying on their meds. But that appears to be rare.
Your focus needs to be on yourself and not your SO. You say you don;t want to be with him when he is unmedicated. In effect this means you don't want to be with him. Why do I say this? See my paragraph above. He will be repeatedly unmedicated. This is a very difficult reality nearly every non-BP SO on this forum has had to face. Several people here would tell you to put as much distance between you and him as soon as possible. Others might give him more of a chance.
My own experience says that giving him more chances is only going to extend your agony. You have made a partial decision - not being with him when he is unmedicated. He will likely force your hand to make the rest of the decicion by not medicating or self-medicating.
G has some excellent posts on this forum describing the typical course of a BP/non-BP relationsship. When I read his posts it was like looking a mirror. I wish I had read them many years before (of course he and I were nearly simultaneously expriencing life with a BP SO). Read G's posts. 90-95% of relationships between non-BP and BP end in divorce. You are unlikely to be the exception to this rule.
Your BP SO has made his choice. My very strong advice to you: Take control of your life and make yours. Don't accept his version of life.
My BP SO talked me into getting on Paxil. She said it would make me well and make me stop doing whatever it was I did to her to make her decide to leave. What an idiot I was! I am so glad I came to my senses and got off the Paxil and her!
My advice: Get off the drugs. Clear your head. Get to a psychiatrist if you need help in dealing with this. Find out if you are BP yourself. If not, stay off the drugs. Get the BP SO out of your life. Use your support group of friends and family. Start fresh.
EVERYONE DESERVES TO BE LOVED AND CARED FOR. FIND SOMEONE TO DO THAT FOR YOU!
Sorry to sound harsh. But you need to save yourself, dear. Before you are dragged further into unreality.
I strongly agree with jsmith. And please read the post from G that he referred to. It's an excellent account of the relationship of BP with non-BP.
As far as dealing with the emotions after mania, there's no easy answer. I lived through two severe manic episodes with my ex BP SO. After the first one he attempted suicide and I put all my anger, disbelief and hurt feelings aside to get through the shock of the attempted suicide. Then I became caregiver. This last episode was a real doozey, and I now know that the episodes get worse with age. We're no longer together and never will be again. There's no way in hell that I ever want to experience life again with someone in the throes of mania. I also know that he created so much damage to so many lives, especially mine, that I could never forgive him enough to go on in our relationship. After the first episode in 2004, and as he recovered from the depression that followed, I had alot of bitter feelings toward him that took a long time to heal. They never went away completely. Deep down I always resented things he did and said while manic. I believe a healthy relationship has to be built on the foundation of trust. During his manic episodes, that lasted for months, I didn't trust anything he did or said. Afterwards, I never fully regained that trust. I felt a void that would never be filled again. It was hard to watch the person I loved so much self-destruct his life and the lives of people who loved him.
This manic episode may be subsiding, but there will be more - medicated or not. You will find your relationship with him eroding a little more with each episode. The anger and bitterness will never truly go away - you'll bury it inside, and it will eat at you slowly.
Lastly, the worst thing I did after his episode in 2004 was I made excuses for his behavior, lied about his mental state, covered up for him, and I bailed him out financially. Lying is not something I do (or do well), and I never saw a dime of repayment for the financial help. In hindsight, I should have let him pick up the pieces of his mania and maybe he would have managed his illness better going forward. Now that his latest episode is over, and I'm not with him, he's dealing with the aftermath alone. I hope he will see how much damage he did, the poor decisions he made, the money he spent, the debt he incurred, and will someday accept his illness and take steps to manage it.
Karen gives you excellent advice also. But as I reread your post, I realized I did not address part of your question. You wanted to know how to tell him about the emotional damage to others that he has caused by not staying on his medications.
Well I have some hard answers here also. The fact is that if you tell him he won't care. He will believe he is right and its about time that all his friends heard it. My ex BP went through a period of making amends with everyone she felt had ever slighted her. She told my kids' teachers and coaches what she thought of them. She had a formula devised to make decisions on who to tell off - she would ask herself whether there would be any long term hurt from telling someone off. I never heard of anyone who passed the formula test and avoided her wrath. She went so far as to yell at an athletic director during a student awards ceremony during which my daughter got an award but also the athletic director was giving an award to his own daughter. He was quite moved by being able to do this and essentially his and his daughter's moment was spoiled by my BP ex yelling at him publicly. I had to field calls all evening from concrned parents and teachers despite the fact that we were already divorced. Bottom line is that BP reasoning on hurting others during their manic times is that the others deserved it. The BP is so high on their own delusional self-image that they think they can pass out whatever punishment is appropriate to anyone that they feel has wronged them in the past. So don't bother to tell him. You won't get the reaction you are hoping for. You are expecting rational human interaction from him, compassion for others, perhaps even remorse. You won't see it. Sorry for the hard fact.
Finally, I noticed in your first message you have kids. Definitely read G's messages. He has insights about BP parents and kids. Focus on your kids even before yourself. Your kids will get you through. Mine got me through. I got them through. We got through together. They will need a lot of strength from you. You will draw that strength from them.
Take care. Read and write often to this forum if it helps you.
my questions is, when you are talking about the manic episodes, how freqent do they appear. My husband can get upset any day and time, but I have noticed the lows and highs in him If we have a fight he can be fine the next day and sometimes it will take few days. And also sometims we can be the happiest family and over something small he get in rage. We have been married for seven years have two small childern and I'm currently separated from him for about year now. He will divorce me he said if I don't go back to him. The problem is that I'm oversees and he is in USA and if I go there i don't have any support factors (his family lives 4'000 miles away) anybody to talk or run to. Where here in Switzerland I have a stable life aroun¨d my family members and friends.
Also I confroted him abot the BD four month after and after I did some research about his behevior we got married, because I was shocked and didn't understud the world.
When he was 5y he was diagnosed with ADD, was on retalin about 10y after that he got off the med and started to self medicate with weed and alcohol. From what he was telling me he went to different anger management therapys and he tald me he was involved in many physical fights. When he was 30y he had nervous break dow, was in hospital for 2-3 month, but he never told me the whole story, he just said that he was deppressed and he moved grom east to west coast because of the sunshine.
He was always very abusive towrads me verbaly, emotinaly and also physicly. If feel many times that he is detached from me and the kids emotionaly.
I guess when he is high he tals about his carrer, he finished his MBA and is waiting for a promotion to VP level (he is in accounting) after beeing for one year at his job. in he past he couldn't hold for long time at the same job, max 1,5y. Two month after we got married he quit his job and wanted to star his own gaming company, but he wasn't prepared at all, it faild.
In the past he had some havy fights with his family, but they never talk about his problem. He was pysicly abused when he was a child by his step-dad and mother.
sorry, where can I find the öpost from G, I will like to read it.
From the reading I've done, I've learned that there's no magic answer to how frequently they occur. Everyone is different. My ex BP had hypomanic episodes (not as severe) about 3 or 4 times a year. He's BP1 (the worst), and he had two severe manic episodes in three years. They each lasted several months. He would disappear, do irrational and very bizarre things, spent huge amounts of money. This would last for months. The hypomanic episodes were less noticeable to others and usually lasted about a week.
Here's the post from G that you were looking for. I think it will help you to read it.
Common Patterns & Events:
- Courtship & Marriage during a BP manic phase. BP's can be charismatic & simply awesome during a hypomanic or manic phase and a Non-BP will often find themselves compelled and transfixed on the BP who is so full of life, and focused on them. It has all the anticipation of being in a roller coaster car climbing the biggest, wildest, and most dangerous roller coaster you will ever get on.
- BP mood swing symptoms eventually manifest: uncontrollable anger, rage, impulsiveness, depression, suicide attempts, financial difficulty, abuse, sexual promiscuity, etc.
- Non-BP eventually insists on BP going for diagnosis or treatment after realizing something is very wrong, and experiencing the futility of trying to "save" the BP.
- BP refuses to go for diagnosis, or attempts self-medication with either herbal supplements, sleep modification, pharmaceuticals, or whatever, but eventually insists they are "fine" or "getting better" during moderate phase of BP cycle.
- Non-BP remains in relationship for reasons of love, codependence, religion, family & peer support, etc.
- BP symptoms manifest again, and the beating of the Non-BP recommences.
- The BP will always accuse the Non-BP of being ill themselves, an abuser, worthless, cause of all problems, etc. BP's rarely take responsibility or accountability for their own actions - it is always the Non-BP's "fault" or the (untreated) illness' fault. A Non-BP should never expect a sincere apology from a BP. A BP will eventually regress & repeat the same apology dozens of times, making them meaningless over time (assuming an apology is ever even offered).
- BP "crazy making" behavior severely affects Non-BP and both will essentially become "crazy" and enter phase of co-dependence. It often takes many sessions for a therapist to sort through who is BP & who is Non-BP in long term BP relationships.
- If BP remains non-diagnosed (convenient for the BP) they will systematically make the Non-BP appear crazy to frends, family, co-workers and commence disassembling the Non-BP's life both to serve the BP's need for drama, and so the BP has someone to share their delicious misery with.
- If Non-BP is lucky enough to convince BP to seek treatment, go on medication, and accept therapy, the Non-BP's life eventually devolves into a 24x7 caretaker relationship.
- The medicating BP will eventually stop taking meds, or new "symptoms" will appear to include all sorts of ailments and side-effects of meds that requires unending attention by the Non-BP. The Non-BP eventually forfeits their friends & family & careers.
- Self medicating BP's will go through their regular cycles unabated with any semblence of sanity being purely coincidental to whatever "treatment" they have self prescribed. I read multiple posts on this forum from BP's who are self medicating & doing "better," when in fact, they are simply going through one of the normal BP phases of self delusion. BP's cannot self medicate.
- The BP's natural state of self-absorption and craving for drama or action whether in a depressed or manic state, and whether medicated or not, will continue for a lifetime & drag everyone along for the ride.
- Multiple reconciliations after infidelities, or "I don't love you," "I have to be free," "I need to find myself," and various acts of self-destruction will ensue as long as the Non-BP will tolerate them - maybe for a year, and maybe a lifetime. Many BP's will be involved in affairs or indiscriminate sexual liaisons that will result in sexually transmitted disease. Non-BP's should protect themselves.
- Children are most often involved and the result of moderate phase or manic phase romantic liaisons - with or without the spouse. Most BP relationships I have seen or read about include 2 or more children, and are often quite prolific with 4 or more children involved.
- The BP does not have the capacity to love & nurture the children much of the time, and has no problem using them as tools to manipulate the Non-BP. Non-BP's should take every possible action to remove children from the influence of a BP, and never leave them unattended for any length of time with a BP. Children are unequipped to deal with BP's. This isn't a condemnation of BP's but an unfortunate fact of the condition. BP's behavior is often hugely destructive and children are highly susceptible. A Non-BP has a responsibility to fight for their children.
- Family & friends who have not had to deal with a BP simply cannot comprehend what a Non-BP goes through when dealing with a BP. The BP will most often act "normal" and over compensate with the Non-BP's family & friends, and their own family, as a means of co-dependent control over the Non-BP. To the outside world, they can appear charming and solid, and never present the over-the-top image to anyone but the Non-BP spouse and children.
- Making tapes or videos of the BP is futile, and even if you can get a recording of a blowout and get someone to listen or watch a BP in a full blown rage and explosion of craziness, they often won't believe their eyes or ears against many years of observation. The comeback will most often be the BP getting the Non-BP into a froth and making a selective recording of their own. It's a battle the BP is fully equipped for and thrives on - it's what they live for - and the Non-BP does not stand a chance in a toe-to-toe fight.
- No MTV sound bite, or any amount of words to a family member or friend can begin to touch on the non-stop 24x7 grind of living with a BP. That's one of the reasons I am contributing to this board - I have been in your shoes and didn't know where to turn, what to do, or what to expect. The only choice a Non-BP has, in the end, is to choose to leave the battlefield, and concentrate on what's between their own two ears, and not their BP partners.
- Divorce is inevitable in 90-95% of marriages with BP's depending on what statistics you choose. Non-BP's will receive well intentioned advice from outsiders to "hold on," "delay," "stick with it," and chastisement from the misguided that divorce is "an abomination to God," when, in fact, a Non-BP has absolutely no control over the situation. Whether the BP initiates divorce, or the Non-BP does, it's eventually going to occur. In the handful of marriages I have personally witnessed where a Non-BP is married to a BP, the only ones that remained intact were where the Non-BP was so codependent on the BP that you couldn't discern who was ill, and who was not. Lastly, anyone who tells you to take the "high road" with a BP hasn't lived with one - always be direct, defend yourself, and constantly set boundaries until you finally decide to "hit the road."
- As a precursor to the next statement, I believe in God, that prayers are answered, and also believe in miracles. With that said, one of the more common phases with BP's is various intense "spiritual" phases. While this can be a good thing, it is sadly too often short-lived and can be severely destructive to a spiritual Non-BP who may feel abandoned or disillusioned when things go sour again. God remains with us, and will always be with both the BP & Non-BP, but the same self-destructive behavior and inability to truly love anyone that defines a BP during mood swings will eventually manifest and shake the faith of even the most fervent of believers. For the Non-BP's I suggest forming your own bond and faith independent of the BP and acknowledging that God loves us all even though he may abhor our actions at times.
- Divorce between Non-BP's and BP's is always painful, messy, and ugly - always. Non-BP's should prepare themselves for the most atrocious of accusations & the fight of their lives. BP's crave drama & action to feel alive, and the pain of divorce is like crack cocaine to them. They revel in it, and the formerly sweet BP man or BP woman that was your spouse will go for your jugular & do as much damage possible to cause the Non-BP pain, and fuel their own pain, including using children as battering rams & pawns to prolong the pain & serve their addiction to drama. A Non-BP must resolve themselves to be decisive & even cruel to the BP to quickly extract the children from the situation. Sorry I can't tell you there is an easy way to go about this, or that cooler minds will prevail. The courts are over-burdened, and BP's can be scarily convincing if the Non-BP has not gathered their facts in preparation.
I may have left a few things out but included enough for both the BP's and Non-BP's reading here to either have a glimpse of their future, or nod their heads in agreement to those things that have passed.
